The Future of the hobby in NZ?

[Rabbit]

David you sound like a prize prat.

I hope you do drop of the forum and I don't care how skilled at fish keeping you think you are. You have your head up your arse with an opinion of the club members like that. The club that runs the forum that you have made how many posts on what 3000+? Seem like you like to stir,take and pay nothing. Screw anyone giving you anytime. Go hide in your fish room and look at fish on the internet and send emails to other prats that way you wont have to go outside and mix with the people of society or as you may see them lowest common denominators.

How about a 1000 post limit for non financial members. :lol:

???What about the Financial members who pollute the forum with ill language due to there lack of control over there own anger (weakness found)!

The topic was back on track for just a brief moment, if you wish to exchange language use the pm button (no one here thinks your tough!) End of debate!

Back on topic, The money (fine).... Where would the approval on the information come from and how would it be chosen as to which genus is liberated first?

[Mcculloch]

David you sound like a prize prat.

I hope you do drop of the forum and I don't care how skilled at fish keeping you think you are. You have your head up your arse with an opinion of the club members like that. The club that runs the forum that you have made how many posts on what 3000+? Seem like you like to stir,take and pay nothing. Screw anyone giving you anytime. Go hide in your fish room and look at fish on the internet and send emails to other prats that way you wont have to go outside and mix with the people of society or as you may see them lowest common denominators.

How about a 1000 post limit for non financial members

Wow and what do you sound like with this post.

David might of got carried away as he actually cares about this hobby, but this isn't called for, I totally see his point.

[Mad Whip]

???What about the Financial members who pollute the forum with ill language due to there lack of control over there own anger (weakness found)!

The topic was back on track for just a brief moment, if you wish to exchange language use the pm button (no one here thinks your tough!) End of debate!

Back on topic, The money (fine).... Where would the approval on the information come from and how would it be chosen as to which genus is liberated first?

Well those members have paid some of the money you talk of spending. So they are ok in my book.

[Mad Whip]

Wow and what do you sound like with this post.

David might of got carried away as he actually cares about this hobby, but this isn't called for, I totally see his point.

I care about my hobby. I just cant understand why no body pulled this prat on why he is so stuck up. He made reference to some club members being the lowest common denominators. Whats wrong with me I'm not the one looking down on people for not being wise to scientific names yet still making an effort to expand there hobby. Everyone has to start somewhere, Some just don't get as far but they still have a right not to be classed as lowest common denominator. That's not called for.

[ryanjury]

I don't think David was calling anyone anything he was just saying that the FNZAS needs to cater for all levels of fish keepers beginners or experienced, those who like to use scientific names and those that don't. As with all of us when we are talking about something we are passionate about it is easy to get very into what we say and do.

[Windsparrow]

On topic, I'm curious to whether the general population (Not us forum-ers) would be interested in these new fish that are getting in. From a (what i assume) a lfs perspective would they sell said unusual fish and in numbers with the price they come at. Sure, David you would like the true Texas cichlid amongst alot of others, but I'm not too sure if the hobby is quite large enough to accommodate something more exotic.

Also the point with the breeding these fish with the "Kiwi ingenuity" and spreading them around through each other, yet we're here to discuss on getting these new fish allowed and imported to the country. Who are the one's getting these fish? I highly doubt the breeders will be in direct relations to importers. At the end of the day, I would believe asking LFS their opinions and whether they can accommodate and continue bringing these new fish in. Yes, it's nice getting cheaper fish, but I suppose in the long run we could just be diluting the lines we have.

[livingart]

the hardest and most costly part of any application is the research to back up why the fish should be allowed in and will not become a threat to our ecology in the future

you could spend your money and time and still be denied

[Rabbit]

the hardest and most costly part of any application is the research to back up why the fish should be allowed in and will not become a threat to our ecology in the future

you could spend your money and time and still be denied

Thats understood, has an application been made and denied before with reference to widening an already existing genus?

[Rabbit]

Keeping it going

[livingart]

We have new people in executive office and appointed committees and they are working hard to answer some of these questions but over the past few years a small number of dedicated people have been left to do all the work themselves with an apathetic response from members and lack of commitment from people who are not members. FNZAS executives and committee appointees aren't paid positions. We are volunteers who work on these issues in our spare time and hitting a brick wall of apathy from members is incredibly disheartening. If you want to influence the public voice of the FNZAS, get involved so you can vote on who gets appointed to executive offices and committees. If you want to keep interest in an important issue then keep the ball rolling with continued support and enthusiasm so the representatives know what the members want and can recruit sufficient help and expertise when needed.

I have very little tolerance for complaining and I am absolutely not interested in dwelling on the past, that will get us nowhere. Let's keep talking about where we can go from here - that is how we can make a difference now. If you have information that will help, then get involved so that we can improve our collective knowledge and influence.

matter now of people putting there hand up and saying i will help if i can

picking a group of fish, david and henward had wanted to do polypterus

navarre had mentioned aulanocora

[oscnz]

Fish keeping is suposed to be fun just reading this thread with all the negitivity makes me think twice about how fun it is

[reef]

Generally mentality seems to be what is in it for me. not what is best for the Hobby.

As the years go by less and less fish species will be imported unless more are added.

[livingart]

have you already done a submission reef?

if so maybe you can help start the ball rolling

[Jennifer]

Well, even though there have been a few bumps in the road, I am very happy to see a core group of people keeping this going with some good ideas. Kudos to Barrie, Rabbit, Reef and others who are genuinely making a difference and trying to keep it positive.

There are several issues here, some include:

1. Establishing/maintaining a good relationship with MAF BNZ/ERMA - we want to help and we want to get reliable information. To do this, we need to be organised and professional in our approach.

2. Correcting the existing fish list (there are many errors) - this should be a positive way for the FNZAS to contribute but there are implications that are being explored.

3. Disseminating information about why allowable fish are not often seen in the shops - In theory it is easy to order in any fish that is on the list, but in actuality, the economic risk is often very great for the importer who may have to buy large quantities of fish that may not sell soon enough to cover costs. Also, the challenges of quarantine restrictions and high-risk fish mean that costs to the consumer may grow as the importer bears that risk and needs to pass it on.

4. Establishing if there is interest and financial support for applying to add more fish species to the list. This is fine, and possible, as long as we understand the limitations (refer to point 3 above) and realise that it may not instantly result in that fish arriving on our doorstep immediately.

With all that said, if anyone here has new ideas for how to assist with any of these areas, feel free to contact me. I would be very happy to facilitate contact with the fish committee (complete with a membership form if needed).

[Rabbit]

Can those keen on doing the hard yards put there hand up here with the genera you are wishing to expand on.

[reef]

Suggestion how this could work,

1/ FNZAS to provide say 40 species of fish hobbies wish to add.

initially we should work on genus that are already on the list.

4 list might be required.

freshwater fish

marine fish

corals

inverts.

List then to be checked by selected importer who will work with other importers to see if its worth adding based on availability and risk based on our experience with what we have added so far.

once we have the final list then a committee can start to get the paper work required.

Committee should meet say every two weeks so that progress it made to meet deadline to get these in. could be a phone meeting or on the a special forum limited to committee members.

People involved should be committed otherwise it will be a waste of time

MAF would prefer that it is done once a year only and we only want one application. less work for MAF.

[Rabbit]

Ill put my hand up for Loricariidae

[SamH]

inverts.

Particularly keen.

[David R]

I hope you do drop of the forum and I don't care how skilled at fish keeping you think you are. You have your head up your arse with an opinion of the club members like that. The club that runs the forum that you have made how many posts on what 3000+?

How about you do some maths before running your mouth? I have made about 4900 posts in the little over 7 years I have been a member of this forum, about 1.8 per day average. Hardly excessive is it? Certainly not as high as many of the more prolific newer members....

Seem like you like to stir,take and pay nothing. Screw anyone giving you anytime.Go hide in your fish room and look at fish on the internet and send emails to other prats that way you wont have to go outside and mix with the people of society or as you may see them lowest common denominators.

Perhaps I will? Although perhaps if you look back at my posting you might find I have been doing as much [if not more] giving than taking. I may have "paid nothing" but I've almost certainly contributed a fair bit more than you with your 180 posts.

Perhaps you haven't been here long enough to notice, but there has been a long-running trend for more experienced people to disappear off the top of both the forum and the club in general. This is one of the big issues Jennifer is trying to address, and that is exactly what I meant by catering to "the lowest common denominator". There are countless other internet forums that are far better resources than this one for more serious hobbyists. If I need advice about designing a sump for my 1400L tank I'll go to MFK because there are a huge number of people there with experience with tanks that size, where as here I could probably count the number of people with 1000L+ tanks with out taking my shoes off. The reason I continue to post here is because it is a good resource for local knowledge [stuff that can't be answered by people in America or Europe] and to try to foster and help encourage the hobby in NZ.

You seem to have interpreted "the lowest common denominator" as some sort of insult, when really all I was saying is that FNZAS and the forum is very good at catering to beginner to moderately experienced people but doesn't offer as much to the advanced hobbyist.

Generally mentality seems to be what is in it for me. not what is best for the Hobby.

Obviously people aren't going to be entirely selfless in this exercise, I wouldn't be interested in making a submission without including Uaru fernandezyepezi, but thats not to say I wouldn't help out with other species that I'm not likely to keep. People are always going to be more enthusiastic and knowledgeable about their areas of interest (I'm sure you wouldn't be too interested in helping with a submission that didn't include any salt water stuff), so what we need to do is get the right people involved so we cover a wide range of fish.

Can those keen on doing the hard yards put there hand up here with the genera you are wishing to expand on.

Correcting the mistakes on the list, or expanding genera already allowed in to include a wider range of species?

Either way, I'm [obviously] interested in helping with the SA and CA cichlids, and oddbals like Polypterus.

[reef]

(I'm sure you wouldn't be too interested in helping with a submission that didn't include any salt water stuff)

Funny you should say that, Hypancistrus zebra and many of the L numbers of the MAF list was added by me

[David R]

Funny you should say that, Hypancistrus zebra and many of the L numbers of the MAF list was added by me

You mentioned that MAF would rather receive one good submission annualy than several throughout the year, when was the last one made?

[Joshlikesfish]

Funny you should say that, Hypancistrus zebra and many of the L numbers of the MAF list was added by me

Legen.....Wait for it....DARY :lol:

[Rabbit]

Funny you should say that, Hypancistrus zebra and many of the L numbers of the MAF list was added by me

lol the Hypancistrus genus is one i would like to elaborate on, for alot of reasons neglecting my own interest but with the devastation in that area to make sure we dont miss the chance entirely. As David said it would be much more efficient if whom ever does whatever it be one of there direct interests. I have spoken with two other Loricariidae enthusiast that would be more than happy to help.

[Joshlikesfish]

lol the Hypancistrus genus is one i would like to elaborate on, for alot of reasons neglecting my own interest but with the devastation in that area to make sure we dont miss the chance entirely. As David said it would be much more efficient if whom ever does whatever it be one of there direct interests. I have spoken with two other Loricariidae enthusiast that would be more than happy to help.

I love Hypancistrus. Don't own any, yet But I would be willing to try and do my share of work if I was needed

[reef]

You mentioned that MAF would rather receive one good submission annualy than several throughout the year, when was the last one made?

5 years ago and the L numbers a few years ago they have still not added all the fish, they lost the list.

Have been speaking to MAF recently to follow up on the flow chart.

They did say it would be better as it will reduce cost, and they don't have time as they regard adding fish not important.