Whats your thoughts on using whitebait as live food.

[Insect Direct]

As per title..just curious as to what others think.

[Navarre]

So what you are suggesting is that you wouldl use the fry of native fish that are endangered due to over fishing and habitat destruction to feed exotic fish.

At $60-125 a kg it sounds like the typical New Zealand way Matt.

Go for it I say.

[livingart]

he maybe talking the frozen chinese ones nav

not live they are better with a beaten egg in a frying pan

[Insect Direct]

NZ whitebait, as live food for fish, turtles etc. Just curious as to what peoples opinions are..

[Navarre]

hmmm have you heard of these things...they are called guppies

LOL

seriously I can think of cheaper, safer more friendly options...good luck tho

[bdspider]

I think it's incredibly wasteful, for the same reasons Nav gave.

[Insect Direct]

mate, no need to make assumptions

[bdspider]

Assumptions on what? You asked for opinions, do you want them or not?

[Insect Direct]

Chill, whats wrong with people today lol. My post was aimed at Navarre :roll:

I havent said im for or against it

[bdspider]

Guess it's pretty hard to chill when everyone around you has been on edge for nearly a week and you know people who are losing their houses.

[Navarre]

Sorry I make no assumptions you asked my opinon on use of a NZ native speices that can only be caught in a legal season and kept commerically with a permit that are a commercial and expensive commodity as live food.

I gave you my opinion based on the facts given

you havent specified if you have above permit, a reliable source or if you just caught to many today and dont want to freeze them down.

wasnt trying to rile anyone but can understand how my post could be taken that way

I appologise for that but can think of far better uses for whitebait.

most involve my tummy

lol

[alanmin4304]

A couple of my neighbours are whitebaiters and used to drop live fish off for the turtles when available. They were smelts and grey whitebait (the ones with a grey belly that have started feeding). The turtles loved them. I guess if it is OK to eat them it is OK for our pets as well. If it makes anyone feel better I no longer have turtles. I would have fed them trout but they were too big and they were keeping them for themselves.If this doesn't make sense it may be because the ground keeps moving as I type.

[Insect Direct]

So what you are suggesting is that you wouldl use the fry of native fish that are endangered due to over fishing and habitat destruction to feed exotic fish.

If thats not an assumption I dont know what is.

My request for opinions on the matter simply has nothing to do with me, other than getting a more informed opinion.

I just think its an interesting topic, and would be very interested to see what others think.

[hovmoller]

I think the risk of introducing diseases/algea/bacteria to your tank far outweighs that they might be free if you had caught too many or whatever.. Better to use self raises fish like guppies as Navarre said.

[preacher]

Why bother with whitebait, plenty of bullies around. But seriously, I can't imagine anyone bothering with the effort when you can go to a local shop or breeder.

P.

[livingart]

As per title..just curious as to what others think.

you asked

you got

[Insect Direct]

sometimes we even get more than we ask for, got to love the generosity :lol:

[Navarre]

Ahhh you cant say I wasnt giving...lmao

[Insect Direct]

lol, and im probably very deserving in some cases :lol:

[livingart]

some would say deserving of something in this case

[Stella]

If thats not an assumption I dont know what is.

My request for opinions on the matter simply has nothing to do with me, other than getting a more informed opinion.

I just think its an interesting topic, and would be very interested to see what others think.

Erm, exactly how is any of that an assumption?

'Whitebait' comprise of five species:

Inanga: general decline

Koaro: general decline

Banded kokopu: general decline

Giant kokopu: threatened

Shortjaw kokopu: threatened

There is PLENTY of scientific literature indicating that loss of habitat for both adults and juveniles, as well as loss of spawning habitat (which is different to adult and juvenile habitat), is a leading cause of the decline of each species.

'Habitat loss' includes effects from loss of riparian forest and low vegetation, sedimentation, dams and perched culverts preventing fish passage, and the definition is often extended to water quality degradation (which has a strong limiting effect on fish) due to land use changes and intensification, point-source pollution, fertiliser run-off etc etc etc

Now, the effect of whitebaiting on the decline of these species is less quantifiable.

However:

The literature shows that whitebait do not really move under darkness, however the whitebaiting regulations limit people to only fishing during the day, when most of the whitebait run.

They also mostly hug the banks, as that is where the flow is less allowing them to swim further. The regulations limit fishing to the edges of streams and rivers.

Some whitebaiters will fish a site almost every day for a season.

Also logically, removing large numbers of juveniles from a population of a threatened species, one that is already limited in every other way, is going to have a negative effect. As I say, very hard to quantify, but as 'assumptions' go, it is not a wild guess, there is an awful lot of research going into whitebait because of the decline. Habitat is by far the greatest factor, but the collective catch of many hundreds or thousands of juveniles per year will be having a negative effect.

Based on several mark-and-recapture studies (they dye the whitebait!), between 1.5 and 44% of the whitebait were recaptured, with an average of 14% (ignoring the highest number, which was bit of an outlier). It is estimated that 20% of whitebait that escape the nets survive to adulthood. If more escaped the nets, maybe more would survive? It is a question that is extremely difficult at the moment to answer: is habitat loss or fishing the biggest bottleneck?

And is what we are seeing now going to change dramatically over time? Agricultural land use intensification over the last 10 years is having a tremendous effect on our rivers. Will any of the whitebait that swam in today in your nearest river even be alive to spawn in 10 years time?

Genetic research shows that there is very little movement of whitebait between rivers. It appears that the larvae loiter around the river mouth then head back in to their natal river. If the habitat of a catchment is significantly destroy for just one life stage, that is going to severely bottleneck the population, and now it turns out that that population will not be greatly augmented by healthy populations in neighbouring catchments.

Yes, whitebaiting is legal and administered by DOC. To many that suggests that it must be sustainable (just like hoki, orange roughy et al :roll: ).

However it is also a cultural fishery and could you imagine the uproar if it was restricted further? Personally I would like to see whitebaiting permitted for individual use, but ban the commercial sale of whitebait. The cultural tradition remains, but yet another Tragedy of the Commons is averted.

I think the risk of introducing diseases/algea/bacteria to your tank far outweighs that they might be free if you had caught too many or whatever.. Better to use self raises fish like guppies as Navarre said.

Actually the vast majority of diseases and algae are present in your tank already. With whitebait there is certainly a high risk of introducing whitespot (which does *not* live in the water anyway) and that is about it.

[Insect Direct]

Erm, exactly how is any of that an assumption?

Well I never said I want to feed them to anything did I. Maybe I read into it wrong and its just Navarre's way of getting a point across, i do not know.

Thanks for your input, appreciate it. Was thinking earlier I should have also asked what peoples thoughts are on the fishing of whitebait in general.

[phoenix44]

So it's a no then? :lol:

who wudda thought :lol:

Although it does sound more like a NO! :evil:

:lol:

[Insect Direct]

I was hoping most would be against it, would not have surprised me if a few are not :roll: . Thing is Ive seen more than one case recently where people think its ok to use them as feeders. Ok people are catching kgs of the stuff for the commercial market so a 100 here and there fed to fish and turtles may seem irrelevant to some. But it doesnt make it right.

If it was upto me I'd ban the catch of whitebait outright. That will never happen with the way our country works. The fishing of whitebait for commercial gain is crazy if you ask me.

Reason I posted this, is one i wasnt sure what others would think and two, that I was hoping it would bring this issue to peoples attention. I think alot of NZers are lacking education on our natives.

I didnt want to post my opinion in the beginning as thought it may just set the tone so to speak. Appreciate those who simply gave their opinion

[jim r]

If whitebait is endangered why does the government allow a whitebait seaon? If you think it not nice to use them as food then surely it is not nice to use guppies as food or any other living organism either! Enjoy your steak/fish dinner. I enjoy mine.