Caryl Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 Does anyone know where you can go to get someone to renegotiate your wages on your behalf, if you do not belong to a union? I gather some lawyers specialise in this but I wondered if there was some company that did it professionally on behalf of individuals. Bear in mind we do not live in a city Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 pay for the trip and i will do it for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted August 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 Does your method involve threats by animals with sharp teeth or beaks? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 Does your method involve threats by animals with sharp teeth or beaks? :lol: no i just growl in appropriate places Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 You will need a lawyer with that experience and there are a few who think they know and even fewer that actually know. The other alternative is to pay a union negotiator to do it on an hourly rate through the union. Cheaper and better to join the union--they are not actually heathens and communists like some believe. Just pick a union with some nouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 you just ask for a review if you haven't had an annual review. If you are owed one, ask for it and demonstrate how you add value to everyday tasks and increase value to the firm using actual facts. If it is a new job that you are applying for, then there is always a large margin to bargain with. A close relative of mine added 50k to the pay packet at the first mention of the salary being too low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted August 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 Easy to say but harder to do, especially when head office is in another city. He got a pay rise about 12 months ago but, despite numerous copmplaints, has yet to see the result show up in his pay packet! :evil: His is a hard job to fit any one criteria as he does so many things not in a prescribed single job description. He is also a sub contractor. He belonged to a union for many years but got disillusioned. Got talking to another subbie working for the same company, doing similar work, and discovered he gets $7,000 more than him but he has a vehicle supplied. We have our own and charge them running costs and a per km rate so get more that way. We wish to keep it this way too. Apart from finding someone in a similar job to talk to, how do you find out these days what the average pay rate is for a particular job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 You can try statistics nz, but im not sure you will find the info there. I think trademe has a wages index by sector. But ideally you would apply for the same job elsewhere and see what they pay. Some institutions (usually union bound) are limited to a fixed set of wages per band / job / job level. Doesn't account for bonuses though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 Most people are not very good at sticking up for themselves so I commend you on thinking about getting a negotiator. I agree about the union. If you don't like one, perhaps try another - negotiations are exactly what they are there for. Going wages will vary depending on region but are often higher than you think, especially for people who have been in the job a long while. Unions will often have some idea of going wages. They will also be able to help deal with that issue of not seeing the raise in the pay packet! :-? These are just my experiences - but I think if you feel you have worth, and can be convincing, you will get more money, MUCH more money. Going into your own negotiation involves some gumption. This is what I usually advise: Make a list of your skills and attributes that make you a valuable employee. If you think you are worth $30/hr, then ask for $39/hr and when they balk, tell them why you are worth it - and mean it. When they continue to balk, tell them again why you are worth it (assertiveness technique #1, the broken record) and why their business will be better with you (what they have to gain). If they make a low ball offer, counter with a reason why you are essential to their business. Be pleasant, always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 Maybe threaten to join the union if he doesn't get a significant rise? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted August 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 Funny you should say that David as he is considering re-joining the union. :lol: His job does not fit any specific category as it is wide ranging. He used to be called a radio technician, then they were told they were 'engineers'. Yesterday he was taught how to locate underground fibre optic cables and was then put in charge of a crew digging in the area. He had to make sure they did not dig up any cable (a very expensive exercise if fibre optics are damaged). He then discovered that not only was he to supervise, he actually had to dig too! Poor man has rheumatoid arthritis and turns 60 next month :roll: He got home by 5pm for once (it is usually between 6pm and 9pm) and managed an evening at home before being called out at 11.30pm to a cell site south of Kaikoura to attend a mains fail alarm. Two hour drive there and back so got home at 4.30am then was up again at 6am to be back onsite digging again today :-? He is also in charge of building maintenance and probably knows as much as fully trained engineers on how to repair air conditioning units. On top of that he deals with all payphone faults in the area, microwave stations and cell sites in Nelson/Marlborough and installs satellite systems and internet connections plus a host of other stuff I don't understand. Oh, and fixes the radio communications between the taxis and ambulances etc. Those uni students who think they work hard need to spend a day on the job with Grant - then they would realise what hard work was! Last week was a short week as he only worked 63 hours and travelled 900km. That does not include the hours worked when he comes home when he works on computers as part of his own company we have above and beyond the other job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 So is he employed by the company or a contractor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted August 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 Contracts to one company that contracts to others :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 So can he not just change his terms/rates as a contractor? Or is it a fixed term type contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted August 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 He is not on a fixed term contract. It is supposed to be reviewed annually but isn't. His problem is more he's quiet, nice guy who doesn't stand up for himself (although has confidence in his abilities) and won't say no when they ask him to do something. Others flatly refuse but he will give anything a go :roll: The last time they tried to change his contract, so he had to use one of their vehicles instead of his own, he said "OK, I resign then" and suddenly they were backtracking and saying they would leave it as it is. He is the only subby working for them that uses his own vehicle. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Easy to say but harder to do, especially when head office is in another city. He got a pay rise about 12 months ago but, despite numerous complaints, has yet to see the result show up in his pay packet! :evil: If I am reading this correctly then he had a pay rise 12 months ago, and I am guessing being a contractor he has a contract renegotiation, then that should be in writing somewhere. If that is in writing then you have a case to claim for the full 12 months of back pay. It’s pretty unusual for a contactor to use a vehicle from the company he contracts too. If he was to do that would he need personal insurance to cover his client’s equipment or does his client cover the insurance for their contractors. he said "OK, I resign then" That worked once, would he have? If so can he use the same threat again? I kind of know how you / he feels, I don’t have the greatest time when it comes to wage negotiations or bonus time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
si_sphinx Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 What you need is a Negotiation Ninja :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshlikesfish Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 The union will probably be a good idea. If not, I'm sure you can get a debt collector or something to do it, even if its not their speciality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 A debt collector would be about as useful as a ballerina I would think. A strong brain would be more use than a strong arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 plus head against head = no winners, only losers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted August 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Grant now tells me he is not a contractor, he is a "casual employee" :roll: If this is what he does casually I hate to think how many hours they would expect from a full timer! He will get the back pay - eventually. They have a separate accounts dept and there seems to be a communication breakdown :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 and 8% holiday pay included in wages. If it is not included in the wage (or paid + the wage); he'll have to get paid out for every hour of service @8% of the hourly rate (before taxes) in full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 He is not on a fixed term contract. It is supposed to be reviewed annually but isn't. His problem is more he's quiet, nice guy who doesn't stand up for himself (although has confidence in his abilities) and won't say no when they ask him to do something. Others flatly refuse but he will give anything a go :roll: The last time they tried to change his contract, so he had to use one of their vehicles instead of his own, he said "OK, I resign then" and suddenly they were backtracking and saying they would leave it as it is. He is the only subby working for them that uses his own vehicle. 8) Sounds like he is the kind of person they value and would like to keep happy. Does he get on well with the managers/employers? IMO the best idea would be to sit down in a relaxed environment with someone he gets on well with (one on one) and have a talk about what he wants and feels he is worth. Keep the aggression and confrontation to a minimum, chances are if he's not unrealistic with his demands they will be happy to meet some/all of them. "Extra milers" are worth their weight in gold to any company,and any competent manager knows it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Sounds like he is the kind of person they value and would like to keep happy. Does he get on well with the managers/employers? IMO the best idea would be to sit down in a relaxed environment with someone he gets on well with (one on one) and have a talk about what he wants and feels he is worth. Keep the aggression and confrontation to a minimum, chances are if he's not unrealistic with his demands they will be happy to meet some/all of them. "Extra milers" are worth their weight in gold to any company,and any competent manager knows it... Your on to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Negotiation is to try and achieve a win/win situation where each party doesn't get all they want but is prepared to walk away reasonably satisfied. If you always hammer your boss or your employees it will end up being a temporary arrangement where nobody realy wins. Negotiation is an art form and is best carried out by skilled people (including the boss---which is not always the case). You will find that most land agents will employ someone else to sell their own house rather than do it themselves. A very good employee is just that and not a good negotiator and a good boss is usually just that. The specialised negotiators are usually employed by the unions or large firms that can afford to employ "human resource managers" but come negotiation time they will front up with a skilled negotiator from the union for bosses---which they lovingly like to call the employers federation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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