Tyrannosaurus Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I have a Betta swollen up like a bowling ball, it's not dropsy as far as I can tell, and it's not constipation either apparently. I've been told that it could be 'Mystery Bloat'.http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=40524 Does anyone have any insight or advice on this? I noticed several days ago (probably four,) that my crowntail male was bloated on his underside. The rest of his body looks normal, and there are no stand out scales, so I think it is constipation. I have pretty much fasted him for four days and fed him a little bit of pea twice now, but there has been no improvement. He seems happy and healthy enough, still swimming well and looking for food, but he is blown up like a bowling ball underneath. I do not see any stringy poo, or any poo at all for that matter. All my other bettas are fine and healthy. Added this pic: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefish Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 my betta had a similar problem - he seemed normal except for the bloating & then after a few weeks it turned into dropsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckyboo Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 i had a blue gourami do something similar. it just stopped eating one day and then just got fatter and fatter. its scales stuck out like dropsy and then finally it was on its last legs so i decided to disect it. it had a huge cavity inside it with lots of fluid inside. all its internal organs looked fine. maybe swim bladder disease? i dont know. it was so fat that it literally started tearing along the bottom of the fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannosaurus Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 What would you advise? Should I euthanize him? I really don't want to, but I also don't want him to suffer. He was my first fish and he's also the father of my first spawn. The idea of having to kill him makes me incredibly sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 As you said, he seems happy for now and still has an appetite so I wouldn't euthanize him just yet. I would advise to try and treat him as if it was constipation or edema (fluid-filled). The best course of action would be to try a bath with epsom salts (magnesium sulfate). Failing that, try aquarium salt. I had a glass catfish which had an inflamed abdomen a few months back after I first got him. Since he was see-though I could tell that his organs were not swollen and it was just fluid filled under his skin. I didn't have epsom salts at the time but I started dosing him with regular rock salt baths. I figured that if I can create as salty an environment as the fish can handle, I might be able to get some of the water to osmosis out. I put the fish into a 2-3ltr container and slowly started adding small amounts of the salt monitoring him carefully. Since glass catfish can be pretty sensitive to water conditions, I had to be really careful. He started turning on his side a couple of times but for the most part he made it to about 10 minutes before I removed him. I did the baths once a day for about a week. He always seemed like the swelling went down a bit after the bath but for the first couple of days it would return when I put him back into the aquarium. At the end of the week though, it was completely gone! You could try this with your betta. They are more tolerant of salt than glassies. Maybe add a bit more aquarium salt into his tank and then once a day try a epsom salt bath. Try feeding de-shelled peas as well...they may help. Goodluck! Milena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannosaurus Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I'm trying the epsom salt baths now. I am hoping they work, he really is horribly bloated. I tried the peas, but this is pretty obviously not constipation. Here's hoping it doesn't turn into full blown dropsy and that he improves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 It will be dropsy. The swelling is a sign of fluid retention caused by kidney failure which can be caused by a number of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannosaurus Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 I'll treat for dropsy as well. He is not pine coning yet, so hopefully it works. He came out of a tank with several other fish in it, including a couple of young fry. I don't see any of them showing symptoms, and I have quarantined him now, but he showed signs of illness in that tank. Is there anything I can do to try to make sure the others don't go the way he has? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 I'm pretty sure dropsy is not contagious. You may try treating with antibiotics or Furan to try to knock out the potential causative agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_fish Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 I'm pretty sure dropsy is not contagious. You may try treating with antibiotics or Furan to try to knock out the potential causative agent. Dropsy is a symptom of kidney failure, not a disease/parasite etc., in itself, and kidney failure can be caused by a number of things, some of which could be contagious, so if you do suspect this is what he has, it might be a good idea to put him in a quarantine tank. However, I would guess it's not dropsy. Bettas, in my experience, are quite prone to dropsy, but with dropsy usually the first symptom is not bloat by itself, but sticking out scales. If he is not passing any poo, then he will probably be constipated (also something Bettas are v. prone to because they are not good at regulating their food intake!). First of all, move him to be by himself, if possible, so that you can regulate what he eats and monitor his bowel movements (or lack thereof). Then, stop feeding him – he should have nothing at all for 2-3 days. Then, on the 3rd/4th day, cook 1-2 peas, remove their skins, and squash them up. Offer him small pieces and as much as he will eat. Wait and watch for a bowel movement over the next few days, repeating the pea treatment once per day if you see no improvement. I have used epsom salts before for constipation, but it my experience, they have been of little help. Let us know how you get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannosaurus Posted December 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Hi everyone, thanks for your help. Just to confirm, it's definitely not constipation, but this mystery bloat that I mentioned and linked to in the opening post. He's still bloated, but he is passing waste. In spite of his bloating, he seems quite cheerful and is eating and even bubble nesting. This is common with 'mystery bloat'. I'd like to try some antibiotics, but I am having significant issues finding any for fish. Americans seems to have access to all kinds of medications, but we have almost none. I tried to find Furan, but one LFS does not stock it. The other claimed it did, but when I went in to get some, told me that 'they had just sold the last bottle.' Yeah, right. I'm going to give a vet a call tomorrow to see if I can procure anything. It seems ridiculous that there is so little out there to keep fish healthy. Stores stock hundreds of daft tiny aquariums that you couldn't fit a minnow in, but necessary medications to make sure your fish doesn't die? No, don't be silly. /rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Do you have an animates in Christchurch? They should stock it. Its not a bottle but pills. You open up the pills and mix the powder into the aquarium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 I'd like to try some antibiotics, but I am having significant issues finding any for fish. Americans seems to have access to all kinds of medications, but we have almost none. I tried to find Furan, but one LFS does not stock it. The other claimed it did, but when I went in to get some, told me that 'they had just sold the last bottle.' Yeah, right. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pets-animals/Fish/Water-treatment/auction-259247349.htm I think you can get smaller ammounts from there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish_fingers Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Few years ago a fighter of mine had this and ended up exploding....not a nice scene to come across when your feeding your fish, the weird thing was that I was upstairs reading about it. The sad thing was that it was my gold CT male. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycnlo Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 redwood aquatics sell them singlely.. also in the blister packs and the 100 pill jar lots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannosaurus Posted December 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Thanks for the advice and tips everyone. Fish really literally explode from this condition? Would it be better just to euthanize him now? I've tried ethryomicin, methylene blue and epsom salt baths, nothing has made a difference. I don't want to him to suffer and then possibly explode, what an awful way to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 It will be dropsy. The swelling is caused by fluid retention bought about by kidney failure which can be caused by a number of things. It is nearly always incurable. Anabantoides are prone to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycnlo Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 id second DROPSY there are lots of causes etc most of it is water conditions or kidney problems etc.. some think excess frozen bloodworms are also the cause.. i had a few cases until i stopped feeding these then havent had any since ( only seemed to occur during a certain batch of a well known product) but lost all of my breeders over a 2month period from when symptoms started ... no cure... you may make the symptoms subside but it will come back.. and worse.. i had one fish that lasted 4months with symptoms.. i kept treating and prolonging it.. managed to make him outlast all the others but still ended out in same outsome.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannosaurus Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 id second DROPSY there are lots of causes etc most of it is water conditions or kidney problems etc.. some think excess frozen bloodworms are also the cause.. i had a few cases until i stopped feeding these then havent had any since ( only seemed to occur during a certain batch of a well known product) but lost all of my breeders over a 2month period from when symptoms started ... no cure... you may make the symptoms subside but it will come back.. and worse.. i had one fish that lasted 4months with symptoms.. i kept treating and prolonging it.. managed to make him outlast all the others but still ended out in same outsome.. It's strange, because he was in a tank that had water circulating amongst 14 other fish (mix of danios and other bettas,) and none of the others are symptomatic at all, and this guy has been swollen for at least 10 days now. He also seems to have now developed a cottony white growth on one side of his gills. My water parameters are good, the other fish are fine and I haven't fed frozen bloodworms or any other frozen food except for once and that was well over a month ago or more. Could that be the cause? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 The cause is kidney failure from any number of sources. The cotton wool is probably mouth fungus which is actually a bacteria and needs to be treated with an atibiotic like furan2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannosaurus Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I got some antibiotics from the vet today. Hopefully they help somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 What antibiotic did you get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycnlo Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 i try have a good supply of meds around.. metrozindole .. meth blue .. marachn green.. tonic.. furan 2.. stuff like that sometime catchn it earlier could mean life or death of the fish some fish specially fighters are prone to it.. could be a underlieng gene prob or something like that... ive never had dropsy in anything other than anatanboids... i also lost about 5 gourami breeders when i were feeding the same lot of blood worms in completely isolated tanks... thats why i stopped feeding them to all my fish. even tho they were real convient and a easy meal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannosaurus Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 They gave me trichozole and told me to crush a quarter tablet into his water daily. His white cottony growths are worse today, I don't know if I caught this early enough, sadly, but I'll at least give this a chance to work. They said if it doesn't work in 5 days that they had another antibiotic I could try, but they didn't say what it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannosaurus Posted December 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Well, four days in he was looking utterly miserable, lying on the bottom of the tank, head down, back arched weirdly and listing to the side. The white cottony growths had all but taken over his gill plates, and after 10 days of being swollen and suffering and not responding to any treatment, I figured the kindest thing would be euthanasia. Poor little guy. RIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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