axolotl-danio Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Hello I am doing science fair at school (Year 10 (I think thats 4th form)) and I would like to do something involving fish or aquatic snails. Obviously it cant be anything cruel and it has to have measurable results that can be graphed. I was wondering if anyone had any good ideas for a science fair project I could do. I have a couple of spare 13-20 litre tanks and filters but no spare heaters. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 How about a 3 stage system where you have water with the fish in it with water(And fish poo) going to a second tank full of green water, then water from that goes into a third tank full of daphnia then the daphnia go into the first tank to feed the fish? Then you have a nice little closed loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 what about testing whether fish like to school, and whether the size of the school has any effect? I would set up the experiment like this: line 1 is a removable partition line 2 is a transparent partition that stays in place line 3 is a line drawn on the tank To test: 1. put one fish behind each partition 2. remove partition 1 3. record time taken for the fish behind removed partition to cross the line drawn on the tank - trying to get close to the other fish that are behind partition 2 4. put test fish in with other fish behind partition 2 5. put new fish behind partion 1 6. repeat steps 2-5 until you run out of fish/patience. 7. repeat entire experiment several times to make data more reliable Because you add the test fish to the school behind partition 2, the school gets bigger each time you do it, that means you can draw a graph showing the relationship between the size of the school and the time the fish take to cross the line. Use a small schooling fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 How about snail growth/breeding at different temps? 1 at 10 deg (if kept outside), 1 at 20 (room temp) 1 at 25 (tropical) and 1 at 30 deg (pretty warm). Put like 10 snails of the same size in there, measure the amount of food they're fed and regulate lighting, then measure how many babies and how big they grow over 3 months. Also measure deaths. Then I can know once and for all what temp to breed my snails at for my puffs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supasi Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 How about snail growth/breeding at different temps? 1 at 10 deg (if kept outside), 1 at 20 (room temp) 1 at 25 (tropical) and 1 at 30 deg (pretty warm). Put like 10 snails of the same size in there, measure the amount of food they're fed and regulate lighting, then measure how many babies and how big they grow over 3 months. Also measure deaths. Then I can know once and for all what temp to breed my snails at for my puffs! Thats exactly what I was thinking Whats that saying? Great minds.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Thats exactly what I was thinking Whats that saying? Great minds.......... Well, I think it's sorted then. Away you go and breed some snails. Post the results (in the form of baby snails) to me :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axolotl-danio Posted May 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Actually I think I will try Olly's idea. I really wanted to do something with schooling size but could not think of an experiment with measurable results. I guess in an unheated aquarium I am limited to white clouds or danios. How many should I use. Thanks :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oeminx Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 I guess in an unheated aquarium I am limited to white clouds or danios. How many should I use. No you have this wrong, it is a great excuse to get another heater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 I think the fish will be too scared and stressed to make this experiment work well. plus doesn't it have to be a test where you only change one variable? if you move the fish to make decisions on schooling behaviour - scaring the living daylights out of the fish by netting it and then releasing it will have an effect on the results. Id recommend sending some snails to lmsmith - and then asking her to see which type of snails the puffers ate first - thus giving you results that can actually be used by many people - which type of snails (shape, colour and size) puffers like eating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 I think the fish will be too scared and stressed to make this experiment work well. plus doesn't it have to be a test where you only change one variable? if you move the fish to make decisions on schooling behaviour - scaring the living daylights out of the fish by netting it and then releasing it will have an effect on the results. Id recommend sending some snails to lmsmith - and then asking her to see which type of snails the puffers ate first - thus giving you results that can actually be used by many people - which type of snails (shape, colour and size) puffers like eating. All of them. All types, shapes, colours and sizes. I think the fish are likely to head towards the rest of the fish less because they school, and more because they think somethings's going on and there might be food - even if the fish are the only activity in the tank, the results won't be very conclusive to prove that fish school. I think you'll find that the fish will spend about a minute in the tank looking round; then will head towards the other fish, then lose interest and swim away randomly. The results also won't actually prove anything unless you can do lots more tests to determine WHY they school; how will you know if they're just moving towards the other fish because they're interested, or because they want to school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axolotl-danio Posted May 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 No you have this wrong, it is a great excuse to get another heater My parents have already offered to pay for some of the project. If I acclimatise them slowely and only do a few tests a day I dont think they would get that stressed. I may even be able to create some sort of holding tank that is connected to the main tank and the fish just swim through when I remove another devider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moya Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I think ollys idea sounds brilliant. Sure it may have some flaws in terms of other stimuli/conditions affecting your results, but this can all be talked about in your analysis at the end, and about "how youd do it better next time". The teachers/judges will love that you can critique your work and make suggestions about furthering your study, because doing so is so vital to scientific experiment in general. Had a random idea to, not sure if this would even work, but would be interesting. The cave tetra manouevers itself through the water by echolocation (i think, you might want to check this ). What would be facinating to have shown is whether the cave tetras ability to sense structure through sound is better than say a normal fishes ability through sight. What im thinking is if perhaps you had a maze set out and did multiple (and i mean heaps) of runs where fishy was placed at one end, and something smelly at the other, who would get to the end first? Cave tetra or other? Again its heavily flawed in that your dealing with different types of fish, and so naturally there is going to be some difference in mental capabilitys (ability to learn, memory capability etc) but anything you wish you could improve but didnt have time/money/foresight for can all go in the writeup at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Had a random idea to, not sure if this would even work, but would be interesting. The cave tetra manouevers itself through the water by echolocation (i think, you might want to check this ). No they don't. They just use their lateral line to feel changes in pressure waves bouncing off objects, same way seeing fish avoid the glass in a tank for example. Although I guess it's kind of arguing about semantics when sound is also pressure waves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moya Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Ahh gotcha... Be interesting i spose to see if the sense is heightened because they just rely on pressure waves rather than sight aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I think ollys idea sounds brilliant. Sure it may have some flaws in terms of other stimuli/conditions affecting your results, but this can all be talked about in your analysis at the end, and about "how youd do it better next time". The teachers/judges will love that you can critique your work and make suggestions about furthering your study, because doing so is so vital to scientific experiment in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.qian Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 This may not be a very good idea but... Fish and other live creatures are very hard to control. You could do something more on the physical and engineering side of things. Such as measuring the daily temperature fluctuations with and without heater, or the water flow rate through the filter and explain why over time the flow-rate drops. Like I said maybe it's a terrible idea but it is definitely science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axolotl-danio Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 UPDATE: Well I decided to do the schooling idea in the end. The results were mixed but I ended getting second in the school year 10 science fair biology section and I think I am getting $30 prize money. Thanks for all the ideas . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Well done. Isn't fish keeping a useful hobby? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikBok Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 UPDATE: Well I decided to do the schooling idea in the end. The results were mixed but I ended getting second in the school year 10 science fair biology section and I think I am getting $30 prize money. congrats! You're the same year as my son but he's never been motivated enough to enter the science fair .. sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 congratulations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axolotl-danio Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Well done. Isn't fish keeping a useful hobby? :lol: Yes it is. congrats! You're the same year as my son but he's never been motivated enough to enter the science fair .. sigh. We had to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Congrats! It's great that you came second! :bounce: But just a minute - where are your results? I think you need to post them here so we all know whether danios (or was it WCMMs) like to school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkfur Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 well done young scientisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axolotl-danio Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I used zebra danios but I dont have the results of the test on me at the moment. They were varied but I will post them when I have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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