lmsmith Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Does any one know the laws surrounding wheel clamping companies (not covered by land transport legislation) on private property? By attaching something to my property, can I now remove the wheel and take the clamp away with me? If I don't pay, what can they do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockwork Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 1st how are you going take your wheel off? is it an open faced wheel clamp? even if it is on your grounds you still have to pay to get it off if you damage it in any way they will do you for damages. there was an guy down here who cut his off with a gas plant and he got done for damaging privet property and was fined $500 and 20hrs pd so if it not to much just pay it or after 3 months they tow the car anyway :oops: :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 The ones they are using are just U shaped clamps that don't prevent you from getting to the nuts. The clamps I'm talking about are in a privately owned carpark. It seems kinda dodgy that they could prevent you from using your property, and complain if you damage theirs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 What part of the wheel does the clamp clamp onto? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Perhaps you need to give us a bit more info, ie are you actually parked in your own private car park or what? :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 My car isn't clamped, do don't worry about that. At the New World near me, they hire a wheel clamping guy who will clamp you if you park for more than 2hrs or go to the mall, not to the supermarket. The clamps go around the tyre, and the outside of it ratchets in to close around the tyre so you can't drive, but the wheel can still be taken off. They charge $280 to unclamp, which is totally outrageous. I know that if you are parked on the road (council/government owned property) then you are clamped pursuant to law and can't take the clamp off (the clamp doesn't let you get to the nuts, and if you damage it you have to pay). However, under normal law, of someone gives you something, or puts something onto your property, it becomes yours. By attaching the wheel clamp to your car, are they 'giving' you the wheel clamp, so it now becomes your property to do what you want with? Is there anything that would prevent you from taking off the tyre and driving away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Could the clamp be taken off if thewheel is taken off and the tyre deflated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu :) Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I think I know what kind of clamp you're talking about, it's more of a Y shape with bar that locks between your cars wheel spokes. Nothing physical to stop you from removing the wheel nuts like on the official council clamps. If you do remove your wheel and take with the clamp with make sure you ever- a). Are a bigger bully b). Know bigger bullies (this includes lawyers 8) ) c). Big testicles d). Quick Brain e). Well versed in the anarchist cookbook Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 However, under normal law, of someone gives you something, or puts something onto your property, it becomes yours. By attaching the wheel clamp to your car, are they 'giving' you the wheel clamp, so it now becomes your property to do what you want with? Is there anything that would prevent you from taking off the tyre and driving away? on the other hand a car parking in their car park could be considered their property by that logic i think. as far as i know there is nothing stopping clamping on private property - provided there is visual sign-age warning offenders of the penalties involved... will have a look at my law book if you like. from my understanding, the car park is private property and the supermarket will reserve the right to admission - and along with that reserve the right to impose a parking restriction, or allocate parts of their lot as time restricted parking spaces. just remember that a car park - if typically publicly accessible is still considered a road and so any laws or by laws will cover your property as if it were parked on a road. for example you can still be charged for driving without a license if you are driving in a car park - if the park is typically accessible to the public. there are a few more "conditions" though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Wouldn't it be simpler to go into the supermarket, spend $1 on some chewing gum, show the clamper your receipt and tell him to Mod=Warren: Implied Swearing removed - warning sentwith his clamp? Or you could do as you say then spend $10000 on a good lawyer try and test the law and if your lucky and get a good judge you might get out of paying the $280. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Is there anything that would prevent you from taking off the tyre and driving away? erm..... physics? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I guess the biggest problem I have with it is that their signs are tiny and not placed well. The guy who does the wheel clamping is really rude, and the whole things is so dodgy. People pay because they are forced to pay, not because they have breached any laws - saying you have to be a New World customer is pretty open (if I shopped at a NW once, I have to count). This is much less about a personal $280, and much more about whether or not a company can actually do anything about it if you change the tyre. (Stella, obviously you'd put on your spare! ) You're right, you can be clamped on private property. I'm not arguing the legitimacy of their legal right clamp so much as your right to remove the clamp or claim it as your own. There has to be a reasonable ability for people to know about and be able to see the signage. Also, according to the law, you can only be charged reasonable amounts, that is, a sum that can be reasonably linked to the actual cost of clamping the wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 (Stella, obviously you'd put on your spare! ) I ride a motorcycle.... You say that your problem is not so much about the $280 but about the signs being tiny and the legitimacy of the venture. It sounds like you are angry about the clamping. I appreciate that it is not your car, but possibly someone close to you? Be careful. Don't do anything in the spur of the moment while running on adrenaline which may be silly when seen in the light of day. Yes it is an outrageous amount to pay and seems absurd for the supermarket to encourage that (I bet good customers go elsewhere after it happens to someone they know!) but I think it unlikely that your theory the clamp becomes the car owner's is going to work. Leaving the wheel and clamp behind might work, but surely there is something against it (it must have been tried before!). And is the fine really more than the cost of a new wheel, tyre, time, effort etc? (fun though it would be to drive off!) Not trying to be a spoilsport, maybe just devil's advocate.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 yes you could change your wheel but you could not take the clamp away as you could be had for stealing their property yes this type of action with small signage etc stinks there was a segment on fair go about this recently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I'm interested in it from a legal perspective (I'm a law student, so I like these sorts of things). I know what the law says (the wheel clamp becomes yours because they have attached it to your property), but there is no case law on it. I wonder if this is because they have some legal backing, or if no one has done it yet. If you use the argument that you could be prosecuted for stealing the clamp, then the argument would also be that by preventing you from moving your vehicle, they are effectively stealing it and extorting money out of you. I know in other countries, wheel clamping is illegal (theft and extortion), and I was wondering if anyone here knew anything more about it (maybe someone who works for a clamping company or for a firm that employs them). There have been several complains (Fair Go did two segments, TV3 did one, and there have been lots of other articles also), and lots of people are pushing for government regulation of clamping services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockwork Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 They charge $280 to unclamp, so what they are saying is if you don't shop here and you are just use the car park as a park to shop some were els you have to pay $280 for the time you are there. i think i will stick with Wilson car parking it a lot cheaper lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Yeah, but then there are also other problems, like what if you park there, go into another shop, go to New World, but because they see you go into the other shop, they clamp you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 but you could not take the clamp away as you could be had for stealing their property Leaving the wheel and clamp behind might work, but surely there is something against it (it must have been tried before!). And is the fine really more than the cost of a new wheel, tyre, time, effort etc? (fun though it would be to drive off!) Surely there would be anotice issued and stuck on the vehicle that would have these conditions on it, and all other conditions as well. But I agree, it would be funny if you could get the wheel off and chuck the spare on and literally leave the clamped wheel behind. As it is not on your car any more, it would be hoot watching come to remove the wheel. But seriously I wonder if that would work, as the clamp is not on your vehicle any more surely they would have to use cctv to prove it was yours before they impound your vehicle. ( assuming you don't label your wheels " please return to ............ if lost") Lucid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu :) Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I wonder what the legal implications would be if you had a little sticker on your car window/s stating that anything attached to this vehicle becomes property of the owner the vehicle? OR If you ordered the right set of skeleton keys off the 'net and unlocked the clamp yourself? As they can only charge you for the unclamping, not the actual act of clamping. Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockwork Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I wonder what the legal implications would be if you had a little sticker on your car window/s stating that anything attached to this vehicle becomes property of the owner the vehicle? OR If you ordered the right set of skeleton keys off the 'net and unlocked the clamp yourself? As they can only charge you for the unclamping, not the actual act of clamping. Stu now that would be funny pmsl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 This one Mark? http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/410965/1680720 thats the one mystic can't remember the ruling on it though no case law then it probably hasn't been challenged legally i think it would fall under the fact that you were aware in no uncertain terms that if you parked there and didn't use a certain shop then you could be clamped and would have to pay the charges it is probably in effect a contract length of stay was part of the contract buying an item at the shop would fulfil part of the contract signage should be big enough to draw your attention to it you could annoy them by making people aware of what they are entering into with your own signage or a loudspeaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 What we need s an electronic wizkid that can fix up the security system on the car so when they try to clamp it a big loudspeaker shouts out. "you clampa my car you get back soon as I find you car" The other way would be to change the wheel then take pictures of them stealing your wheel and lay charges. One way to get case history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 The supermarket could have you charged with theft for stealing a service by not parking there for the purpose of shopping at the supermarket. I use to keep a bin out side the front of my work(on my property) Every now and then the lock would be removed and people would use it to throw their own rubbish in. The cost of this bin per empty in those days was $78. Now if you had to do say 10 extra empties per year, thats an extra $780 that you have paid so you can appreciate that its an reasonable amount. I had had enough after a couple of years so contacted the police and asked them what I/they could do. They arrived and took away the rubbish and went through it as well as the next time it happened. End result was that some cleaners were useing my bin along with others and as such were stealing a service from me. They were charged and fined Those that are having the cars clamped should ask themselves if they would be happy with the supermarket just parking a truck on their front lawns for a couple of hours whenever they felt like it Sorry but I agree with the supermarket and belive they have every rite to clamp and charge or have the police lay charges. The supermarket had to pay for the construction/tarseal and rates and others feel they can abuse and steal this service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Juss dont park there - problem solved! lol! :lol: Its their carpark, they can do as they please with it. If I owned a large carpark I'd be pretty pissed if people were using it to spend money at another store... At the New World near me, they hire a wheel clamping guy who will clamp you if you park for more than 2hrs or go to the mall, not to the supermarket. They charge $280 to unclamp, which is totally outrageous. Is it? I can't see why it is outrageous, when you consider the cost of hiring the clamping guy, the lost opportunity cost of not having a parking space available for customers wanting to shop at the supermarket etc. Again, its their carpark and they should be able to do as they please. The guy who does the wheel clamping is really rude. I don't blame him, I know a few tow truck drivers and having an attitude is pretty much part of the job. Its not like most people caught say "fair call, you got me, I was breaking the rules", if you had to deal with people whinging and making up petty excuses every day you'd get sick of it too. People pay because they are forced to pay, not because they have breached any laws ... You're right, you can be clamped on private property. I'm not arguing the legitimacy of their legal right clamp Contradict much? In short, if you don't like it then don't break the rules. I can't stand people who moan about parking tickets, speeding tickets, etc etc. At the end of the day you were doing something you shouldn't have been and you got caught, so deal with it and suffer the consequences... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 The supermarket could have you charged with theft for stealing a service by not parking there for the purpose of shopping at the supermarket. I use to keep a bin out side the front of my work(on my property) Every now and then the lock would be removed and people would use it to throw their own rubbish in. The cost of this bin per empty in those days was $78. Now if you had to do say 10 extra empties per year, thats an extra $780 that you have paid so you can appreciate that its an reasonable amount. I had had enough after a couple of years so contacted the police and asked them what I/they could do. They arrived and took away the rubbish and went through it as well as the next time it happened. End result was that some cleaners were useing my bin along with others and as such were stealing a service from me. They were charged and fined Those that are having the cars clamped should ask themselves if they would be happy with the supermarket just parking a truck on their front lawns for a couple of hours whenever they felt like it Sorry but I agree with the supermarket and belive they have every rite to clamp and charge or have the police lay charges. The supermarket had to pay for the construction/tarseal and rates and others feel they can abuse and steal this service Barry, i dont think her problem is the fact you cant park there, its more the inappropriate/lack of signage used to notify people not to use the carpark when not at the supermarket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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