livingart Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 alan maf apply to erma to determine the status of an organism, so we would go direct to erma but would also submit application to maf biosecurity as an interested party auckland zoos contribution would be the bloods etc done unsite i would imagine this would be the first step to determine if they are carrying anything that may be declared as new or unwanted if something is found then this would need to be adressed as the whole thing will hinge on what is found good idea navarre on maf vet we have some prepared to help financially and some with time anyone else keen to put their hand up? me davidr navarre varanophile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 i'll put my hand up for this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 i can help if needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hothouse Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Count me in. Will be able to help where needed. Just ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reptor Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 if we cant findout who headed this one up and what was involed might help and yea im keen to get behind this,like the idear that it could help with up keep of zoos and reptile parks 1 Pursuant to section 22 of the Biosecurity Act 1993, this document is the Import Health Standard for the importation from Australia of the star tortoise (Geochelone elegans) and the yellow-headed tortoise (Indotestudo elongata) into New Zealand for zoos. if we could find out what health standard tests were for this rear import of tortoises to nz its got to be close to whats need to release whats here,? just puttin it out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 for those keen to help check this out word doc http://www.ermanz.govt.nz/resources/pub ... NOCR-1.doc pdf http://www.ermanz.govt.nz/resources/pub ... NOCR-1.pdf i would suggest approaching with a controlled release ie" animals micro chipped and to registered people over a time period could also form start of registered breeders for rarer exotic reps in nz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 i would suggest approaching with a controlled release ie" animals micro chipped and to registered people over a time period could also form start of registered breeders for rarer exotic reps in nz This would be great, but considering the powers that be are looking at opening up certain native species for what will end up open slather with no controls and i'm sure a lot of wild collecting and keeping by inexperienced keepers, why would they want to set up another register for exotics!! Sorry for being synical :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 so they know who`s got what and where,breeding quantities,etc etc??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 if they want to scrap what they have now for natives " endangered" , because of to much work being involved why would they set something up now for exotics, it is much easier for them to just say no than put in a system. Don't get me wrong, I am all for a full native and exotic permitted open system but after reseaching the crap out of it I just can't see the people with the ultimate say doing anything right, they haven't even bothered asking the Nz herp Society for it's input into the lastest probable stuff up, gee why ask the people that it effects most!! :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 forget what i wrote about a register and concentrate on release of tortoise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 yeah sorry, just been working on a native submission, got me a bit hot under the collar :oops: someone needs to talk to Ivan at ti Point, see what his view on release into public hands is since he has so many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 i can understand that broms the whole system makes me feel like that but i have learnt to play the paper war game intelligence seems to be something those in aothority can function without sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted December 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Someone on here must know him reasonably well? Mark I still haven't had much of a chance to look over those links, or the ones in the response to my letter. I'm happy to be the go between seems how I have already been in contact with MAF regarding this issue. I'll try to look at those links over the next few days, and if others could too so we can come up with a list of things we need to find out from them, like what tests need to be done etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 basically 2 tests from different vets then we need to research and answer any issues brought up frpm bloods approach doc for their stance on releasing tortoise into general population adress danger they may pose to native animals adress the issue that they eat grass and may compete with sheep and rabbits consult iwi point out and rebutt any possible negatives then outline why they should be released chances of success greater if it comes from a group not individuals also do individual submissions as well go to tv if necessary to stir things along has anyone talked to the auck zoo about this as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 well if you want to get the tortoises to be released into private hands you are going to have to apply for a release. Due to them already being in the country, and MAF cant prove that they where smuggled then they are here to stay. I am trying to keep up with the play but im not fully in the loop with what is happening. From emailing ERMA they have the final say not DOC or MAF. ERMA in my opinion will not allow the release of these animals from the facilities that they are held in, but that means that we should still try. If you try to go through a controlled release i firmly believe that it will be allot harsher than that, such as only desexed males to be sold. this is to stop any possability of these animals establishing themselevs. Now this defeats the point because most people want to breed from them? You would have to go with a full release, and this costs around $37,000 and still doesnt guarantee them to be released. I suggest go with controlled release, and get some solid evidence that these post no threat to the sorrounding ecosystem. What we really need is MAF to create a IHS for the reptiles in NZ so we can... A) know what we can/cant keep B) know what type of disease that MAF are looking for C) control what is kept privatly in NZ But i doubt it will happen... Just my opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 have you read the whole thread charlie? there is more than one way of doing a controlled release and the applicant has to form the ihs for approval correct me if i am wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 when we tried to get a permit to bring ours from overseas, they said they could not give us one as there was no health standard for bringing in any type of tortoise in. And every permit issued for importing needs a health standard. Just for applying for a health standard could take up to four years, (which we didn't have as we were moving soon) but if there is no health standard for bringing in tortoises into NZ, how come the zoo was aloud to? or is there only a health standard for zoos transferring? Oh, and we also tried ringing different plane companys, because if they aloud us to bring the torts on their planes we would have been aloud I think. But sadly none of them would let us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Containment means that. They are virtually in permanent quarantine in a zoo and so there are more animals that can be kept with a zoo licence. It is releasing them to the public that is harder. The attitude down here with importing fish is that they would hope it would go away, and this is a bit similar. Horses and trout yes, others not so keen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navarre Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Hi Steph, I am happy to stand corrected on this, as I dont know the whole story but basically you used to be able to bring in anything you wanted. Then you had to decalre what you had then you couldnt bring in anything. So there used to be (and may still be) all sorts of stuff here. then they closed teh door and had an amnesty about what you had. if you declared it all well and good. if you didnt and they found out it was destoryed or went to a zoo. So thats it in a nut shell I think Navarre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickle Pickle Posted December 27, 2008 Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 I know someone who knows Ivan at ti Point quite well I think. I'll have a chat to him about this and will let you guys know if i get any info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted December 27, 2008 Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 I am going up to visit him next week, I will have a chat when I am up there and see what he thinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 talked to Ivan up at Ti Point today, he said that the Leopard Tortoises were already permitted for private ownership as someone has already had it put through, the only problem is getting the zoos to pass them on to private keepers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 talked to Ivan up at Ti Point today, he said that the Leopard Tortoises were already permitted for private ownership as someone has already had it put through, the only problem is getting the zoos to pass them on to private keepers. Ha,ha...was not sure if he was going to put that out there....not sure who else is aware of that, I don't think Akl zoo is. The best scenario is to swap the zoo animals they want in exchange. Remember the shingle for bluey swap with wellington zoo? I am not sure whether they can sell animals to the public...anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockwork Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Remember the shingle for bluey swap with wellington zoo? I am not sure whether they can sell animals to the public...anyone know?(quote varanophile) yea and welly zoo got done big time on that swap and the person new that all 4 buleys were male but we wont name names now. and now i bet MAF didnt want that to be known to the public lol (about the tortoise) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 that would have come out anyway as it was pushed through, I don't think Auckland Zoo would swap with private keepers at this point as it sounds like they have a policy now of only swapping with other containment facilities, still good news anyways, varanophile, if you knew about this already what did you have to gain not mentioning anything about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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