Bearded Dragons in Disgraceful Conditions

[Varanophile]

I have kept bearded dragons for many years now and I'm surprised to see ignorance of knowledge about them evident in your research. I buy food regularly from this shop and think you should get your facts straight before you start writing stuff like this on the internet.

why is it that so called animal lovers attack the people that really care. Your efforts would be better else where.

that lizard is obviously unwell. it is being kept with blue tongues. if a shop stocks them, it is to make profit, but with pets there is the added responsibility of looking out for the animals welfare.

if you have kept beardies for many years and you do not realise that, i honestly feel very sorry for you.

if this thread had not been on the net, people like you would ensure that it was kept this way...YOU need to get your facts right, no beardie keeper in their right mind would not think something was wrong.

alien4, apologies, I have heard you keep your stock well.

[suphew]

Not saying there is any thing dodgy going on but its interesting that the 3 new posters in this thread all joined up on the same day, and posted with hours (minutes for the first two) of each other. It would be great for this forum if there were 3 genuine new experienced posters.

[livingart]

Not saying there is any thing dodgy going on but its interesting that the 3 new posters in this thread all joined up on the same day, and posted with hours (minutes for the first two) of each other. It would be great for this forum if there were 3 genuine new experienced posters.

waiting for their next posts

[alien4]

well excuse me suphew, having the finger pointed at me like it was for placing beardies in there way at that shop sure as hell hurt, And no way in hell are they mine, i went to that shop to let them no and quite frankly those beardies ant as bad as said and showen, yes may have a few toes missing, may be with the blues,but i saw with my own eyes it eat, climb the vine in the enclousure, it is'nt dull in colour showing its cold or unhappy, it even sat on the blues back poking tongues,,

I my self take limbless beardies in and are all doing just fine and dandy,, my beardies are my pride and joy even with one missing 3 quats of tail, another missing a whole leg, and another missing half tail,, they are eating well, moving as if nothing was missing,,

I also breed there food, locusts, mealworms and slaters of which the finger was pointed at me,, I did sell them on TM, but do not give/sell to pet shops,,

Since this thread has started Ive recived one horrid email saying I'm a cruel heartless person for those beardies at the shop,, and with people enquiring about my TM listing harsh ones instead of orders,, My name may have been removed but but looking at it from my point word gets round and Im getting trouble from it thanks to people getting there facts WORNG,,

[suphew]

When was the finger pointed at you?? Your name (I assume) came up suggesting that if you supplied the shop you should talk to them regarding how they kept them which I think is pretty fair comment.

rules are rules and need to get your facts right before you go naming people and Tonka, you dont have your facts right about that person.

I know nothing about beardies, for all I know you may well be right regarding the condition of this one. I just pointed out that 3 new members appeared all at once with views opposing every one else, seemed very strange to me, and I still think that is the case.

Good on you for going down and having a look, that was all that was suggested in the first place.

[broms2]

well I dropped in to see them today and had a talk with them, it sounds like one beardie came in looking worse for wear and then was picked on by dominant beardie, they have had it in the bluey enclosure while fattening it up and medicating, since last visit it seems to be a bit better and colour is good, just a sore eye.

These guys are pretty devastated by what is being said on the forum and I personally think facts have been blurred, the set ups look fine and sounds like they are going to go bigger for the beardies which will be good.

I am all for name and shame when it is appropriate, but in this case I think it has gone overboard without all the facts.

Just my personal thoughts on this.

[Warren]

I agree, not enough facts before fingers were pointed. Let this be a good lesson in getting your facts right before posting in the future.

Had the original poster asked to talk to the manager and got the correct story to start with none of this would have happened. Don't rush into pointing fingers without correct facts or taking the time to at least try to talk to the people involved first. If at first you get no results, try harder. I tried 4 times to get a shop to remove a pest plant from one of their ponds. When they wouldn't do anything about it I called DOC. Amazingly the plant was all gone 3 days later...

This website does not support name and shame.

The SPCA is also here for this exact problem. Any mistreated animals whether in homes or shops can be reported to them and they will take the appropriate steps.

If all else fails then maybe you can think about discussion on a public forum. Just be prepared for the exact problem shown in this thread though. Just be certain you've exhausted ALL other avenues first and make sure you have your facts 100% accurate. Failure to do so will cause unnecessary grief for people who have nothing to do with the issue.

[livingart]

well done broms for going out and getting it straight from the horses mouth

well said warren

[beardy]

Nice to see some people are getting the facts right. Abuse to any animal is totally unacceptable, but you still need to get your facts absolutely right before accusing.

[tonka]

The Facts -#1 - i said that ****** HAD sold beardies there before - TRUE (as stated by responder #1) ....... Fact #2 i also said that ****** DOES sell slaters - TRUE (also as stated by responder #1) . I got my facts right . I did not say that ****** sold said beardies to said shop , i was pointing out that ****** HAD sold them to said shop before & DOES sell slaters, both TRUE FACTS.....the names in this post have been changed or removed so as to protect the identity of innocent people/entities.no beardies,slaters or feelings were harmed in the writing of this post,no corespondence will be entered into, the moderators decision is final. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) lighten up everyone ,winter will be over soon.

[livingart]

whole trouble in this world tonka is that nud sticks

and then others make assumptions or judgements from photos

we rescue a lot of animals/reps/fish and get complaints by people about the bird that plucks itself or the anorexic frog, for examples

the bird was almost nude when it arrived (now just a small patch on breast)

and the frogs can't be relesed until fattened up

not saying this is what has happened at the shop but there are generally two sides to the arguement

[Tabz]

Can i please say that my original post, was not a 'personal' attack on the pet shop, so can we please clear the air on that straight away. All i was trying to do was make people aware of how dragons are kept in pet shops. I'm sorry for naming the pet shop in my first post, before being edited, i should have forseen that it would kick up a storm, it honestly was not my intention.

As far as i have seen the general standard of living given to dragons being kept in pet shops has been pretty poor, in all the pet shops I have seen dragons being kept in, there seems to have been a lack of knowledge on the proper care of dragons.

I personally believe that pet shops should not be allowed selling these kinds of animals, i believe they come with far too much responsibilty, and that their young lives are far too fragile too be brought up with less than the best possible care and environment. I believe that it should be left to the breeders. I guess what i was trying to say with my original post is that pet shops are not where to buy dragons from, and please everyone, i am entitled to that opinion.

Would i not be right to say that a pet shop has a responsibility to provide the utmost care for all of their animals that they keep, making sure that all of their special needs and requirements are taken care of?

Would i not also be right to say that pet shops have everything needed to provide the perfect environment for dragons right at their fingertips? ie, proper size tanks, proper lighting, proper food, proper heat and books with information on the care of dragons.

I don't know what book they've read but i cant think of any that says its ok to keep dragons and blue tongues together, neither any book that says that young dragons can eat vegetables as big as their head, nor any book thats says its wise to keep that many maturing dragons in one tank. I can recommend 'The Bearded Dragon Manual' by the Herpetocultural Society, released by AVS Books, Its the best book i've read on the care for Bearded Dragons, and may i suggest that if the Manager of said pet shop reads this, that he stocks this book so that buyers of dragons have some proper info on what they are buying into.

Perhaps a little personal interest and education would do well in all pet shops.

well excuse me suphew, having the finger pointed at me like it was for placing beardies in there way at that shop sure as hell hurt, And no way in hell are they mine, i went to that shop to let them no and quite frankly those beardies ant as bad as said and showen, yes may have a few toes missing, may be with the blues,but i saw with my own eyes it eat, climb the vine in the enclousure, it is'nt dull in colour showing its cold or unhappy, it even sat on the blues back poking tongues,,

I my self take limbless beardies in and are all doing just fine and dandy,, my beardies are my pride and joy even with one missing 3 quats of tail, another missing a whole leg, and another missing half tail,, they are eating well, moving as if nothing was missing,,

I also breed there food, locusts, mealworms and slaters of which the finger was pointed at me,, I did sell them on TM, but do not give/sell to pet shops,,

Since this thread has started Ive recived one horrid email saying I'm a cruel heartless person for those beardies at the shop,, and with people enquiring about my TM listing harsh ones instead of orders,, My name may have been removed but but looking at it from my point word gets round and Im getting trouble from it thanks to people getting there facts WORNG,,

Can I please say that all i said was that i believed it to be a woman selling dragons to the shop, having no idea who, i did not name you, nor do i have any idea who you are. I am sorry that your name was brought up, but that was not my doing.

Can you please tell me where/who recommended that it was ok to feed slaters to dragons? It is my understanding that because of the rotting wood they eat, they are highly likely to carry parasites. Personally, not something i would like to expose my dragon to.

Nevertheless, keeping slaters in a pile of wood chips, so that the dragon has to take in mouthfuls of dirt or wood to eat, is not a good idea. Anybody who has read any information on impaction should know that that is common sense.

As for the spiders and the slaters, what do u think they eat in the wild in Auzie.

like broms2 sed, there are pets shops out there with insufficient lighting and small enclosures.

To you snakey, can i please say while i do believe that dragons in the wild may eat spiders and slaters, can i also say that dragons in the wild also carry a lot of parasites. Parasites which do not appear to affect them because they have a an immune system built up from birth to handle them.

Do you not agree that by taking on the responsibility of a dragon, it is your duty to replicate its natural environment as best as you can. Would you not also agree that taking all the bad, harmful things out of that environment, it is in your best interest to provide the best possible life for your dragon

I'm all for creating a natural environment for your dragon to live in but when it comes to this 'in the wild' stuff. You have to understand that your dragon IS NOT IN the wild. So things that happen, 'in the wild' are not always the best thing for your dragon, and the way i see it a vivarium without predators and without parasites and with perfect temps is a bloody good upgrade from the real thing.

After talkin to the staff i have learned that the little dragon in the bluey's tank is there because it was being picked on by the bigger one's and was getting stressed out.

That may be fact, but it does not make sense. Why would you take a dragon that is stressed out by creatures its own size, and put it in a tank with creatures 4 x its size? that dragon should be in its own tank! If your talking about the smaller of the two in the bluey tank, when i saw it, it was curled in a ball hiding in the darkest corner of the tank.

like broms2 sed, there are pets shops out there with insufficient lighting and small enclosures.

This is the last thing i'm gonna pull you up on mate. I dont know how big your tank is, how many dragons you keep in there or what lighting set up you have, but what i do know is that the main dragon tank they have is definately insufficient. Red basking lights are bad, because they are not bright enough and cause lethargy in dragons, the uv tube, is too far away and is shining through glass (dragons need to be able to get within 6 inches of the tube to get any real benefit out of it). And most of all, the obvious one, is that there are too many adolescent dragons in that cage, you can see they have dominance issues because they are lying on top of each other and are taking bites out of each other.

I am truly sorry about this being blown out of proportion.

Sorry about long post.

[broms2]

guys, the other thing I talked to them about is that this is a forum after all, and everyone on here has the best intentions and love what they keep!!

Just sometimes we all go a bit overboard with each other, thats what makes this forum so cool!!

I do like seeing reptiles in stores, the more people into them the less likely chance of the powers that be making them disapear all together!

Hope to see you all at Varanophiles today!

[Warren]

As we seem to be going round in circles (yet again on yet another thread) this topic is locked and is not to be discussed again. As the point in my last post has been ignored by some or they have failed to understand what was said there is to be no further discussion of this type again. Don't care what your motive is, damaging unrelated peoples reputation through casual remarks is not tolerated.