puttputt Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 It may be Layton, my point being that a number of tanks are running the same lights, and are responding well, some very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 I just wonder if something else hasn't occured. Seems strange to me that if it was just carbon clearing the water and strong light, that all corals were affected, even those on the lower levels of the tank. Wish Chimera would find those old 2 cent peices in his tank, would solve the mystery for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Then another theory could be that the extra light stressed the coral as they did not have enough food thus had no energy to utilise the light so it stressed them further, carbon would have made it worse as it would have stripped more food out of the water which could reduced the slim coat on the coral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Seems strange to me that if it was just carbon clearing the water Not at all. happened to me , i put too much rowasphos/carbon in and many acropora went brown. Lost about one coral as i did not do anything rash like do a big water change as this would have stressed them more. just reduced my lights and added amino acids and trace elements which helped them recover in a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Nothing to do with food in the water. It doesn't trigger bleaching. Seems strange to me that if it was just carbon clearing the water and strong light, that all corals were affected, even those on the lower levels of the tank. Why is that strange? I don't get it. What's the whole mystery? First you irritate the corals with zeovit and it's effects. Then you stress them furthur with a increase in light. Looks like a recepie for bleaching to me. (Your 2 cent idea may not be too far off either) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Strange because I would have thought that if it was light related, ther would have been variations in effect, given some corals would be in deeper water or more shaded positions. Why would your corals go brown reef, if you ran too much carbon/rowaphos?? Maybe growing more zooxanthellae to shild the light, if so why did Chimeras bleach, and not brown out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Nothing to do with food in the water. It doesn't trigger bleaching it might not cause bleaching however it can cause rtn as coral start to eat themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Maybe because you're adding a zooxanthellae fertiliser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 The acro's were doing exceptionally well, all showing signs of great colour, those that had fully coloured up were stable at that colour for a couple of months (eg: pink monti, purple milli etc) It seems fairly logical that, based on the timing of the events, the addition of fluidised carbon was when things started going down hill (about 3-4 weeks after it was added). However, things did deteriorate exceptionally slowly - bleaching would have been a difficult term to use at the time, the corals got lighter but certainly did not look like they were lacking zoox to an extent that they would bleach (i dont buy into Layton's "zeovit" theory). Things went downhill very fast after the addition of potassium (to theoretically darken up the corals) The addition of that along with a couple of 20% water changes was when things went backwards. Now I'm not saying the water changes caused the issue nor the potassium dosing being the cause - moreso the sudden change in water parameters further stressed the acro's (from the carbon/lighting issue) causing them to expel their zoox. IMO, the lights on their own most definately did not cause the corals to bleach, in fact I even raised them by 2" on the 19th of Sept. Problems started around early October (could it be because the PAR they were receiving was now reduced? ) I've been doing some reading on this and this is my theory to the problem in order of events (assuming that there isn't a bundle of 2 cent coins sitting in the bottom of the tank ) Most definately a number of factors caused the bleaching: In order, it started with fluidisation of carbon stripping too many proteins from the water (eg: amino acids). The lack of these amino's meant the acro's had less chance of creating MAA (mycosporine-like amino acids, a protective coating that absorbs UV light which then enables the zoox to photosynthesize without being damaged by the UV) So, the lack of MAA in addition with the intense lighting and further exassperated by the sudden changes in water parameters from the water changes and dosing of potassium caused further stress causing the zoox to expell at a higher rate, and thus causing the bleaching. The fact that the poccilipora (which admitedly loves alot of light anyway) was the least effected because it sat directly under the glass brace (which would have helped to add UV protection) is potentially more evidence. At the time, large water change or not, I really dont think I could have saved many of them as the damage was already considerably done. Im guessing that the xenia at the bottom of the tank have suddenly "melted" since the lights were reduced to 3 hours a day and continued to after the large water change is probably caused simply by stress, or perhaps because of the amount of bacteria released by the acro's when they did bleach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 I know what Layton's thinking! I bet you don't I bet I always know what's always on your mind Layton, here it is...... some of the corals were in a bleached state after zeovit. Ha Ha! One of the EASIEST bets I ever won!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Why? Because it's blatantly obvious that's how zeovit does it's thing? Did zeovit kit the corals? Maybe not, but it looks to be a significant contributing factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Why? Because it's blatantly obvious that's how zeovit does it's thing? A rather big assumption again Layton, there's no bleached corals in my tank? But really I was just pointing out that i DO know what is always on your mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 It's not an assumption at all. Look at the zeoguide, look at KZ tanks, look at all the evidence on zeovit.com. All point to the same thing. Adding something which causes bleaching, then trying to control the extent of the bleaching, so that it doesn't kill the corals. And you've pin pointed you're problem right there. You think you know what i'm thinking. Maybe if you read and take in what I actually write, rather than making up what you think i'm thinking, then some of the threads on here might not be so rediculous. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Another thread on its way to distruction thanks to Layton and his theorys on Zeovit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifty Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 when you sort your probs out chimera I have some pink monti, green scrolling monti and some zenia frags you are more than welcome too just let me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 when you sort your probs out chimera I have some pink monti, green scrolling monti and some zenia frags you are more than welcome too just let me know you da man! cheers bro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEOvitANZ Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Gee Layton, if your this bitter and twisted about something when you are only young, I would hate to see you when you are 40. I think it is about time you stopped bagging zeovit, it's getting really boring and I am starting to feel embarrased for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Didnt Chimera stop using Zeovit ages ago anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Didnt Chimera stop using Zeovit ages ago anyway? yes, about 3 months ago. layton swears the damage was already done :roll: on the contrary, and specifically after the lighting upgrade some of the corals were better than they've ever been (to an extent where they were at a colour i would be exceptionally happy with and wouldnt have thought they could have got any better) it has been going on for a couple of years now http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/1-vt3256.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Gee Layton, if your this bitter and twisted about something when you are only young, I would hate to see you when you are 40. I think it is about time you stopped bagging zeovit, it's getting really boring and I am starting to feel embarrased for you. Whose bitter and twisted? All i've said, is what it does. Even a casual look around zeovit.com will show this, read the latest iteration of the zeoguide and you'll see it, look at KZ's tanks and you'll see it. Why is that so offensive to some people? I think zeovit is only part of the problem here (a contributing factor like i said to start with). Bleaching has little relation to coral colours too. When people hear bleached they think white, but bleached corals can, and often are intially brightly coloured... they just have low densities of zooxanthellae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Interesting your pink pocci is still doing OK Chimera. I've found those a hard one. Other thing I'm interested in, have you noticed any effect, good or bad, from the big water change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted October 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Chim once I get my frags to grow I will share too. Must be time to do the big upgrade you wanted. I find when I do a NSW things always look great the next day. The Anemones love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Interesting your pink pocci is still doing OK Chimera. I've found those a hard one. they love HEAPS of light - probably why it survived Other thing I'm interested in, have you noticed any effect, good or bad, from the big water change? no, not really yet. mind you, the calculations i did to bring the water parameters up were spot on. i tested again tonight, Mg is low at 1200 (because i didnt have enough Mag chloride left) but kH @ 10.6 and Ca @ 415 are all good. Need to get another bag of Mg chloride although this time I think i'll keep the whole bag myself as you use heaps to bring levels up. Of all the acro's still in the tank (poc is @ shaneo's and 2 acro's @ crackers) only the hydnophora, one other acro that was under the glass brace, a small purple frag half way down and the blue coral are alive. I also dumped in a heap of cyclopeeze mixed with phytoplankton. Figured the LPS and BTA's could pick up some of it. The hydno was the only thing with polyps out feeding on the food i dumped in. Quite amazing as the hydno is the only acro that was sitting out "in the open", in the centre of the halide and high up in the tank. Talk about hardy! I also bought a sailfin tang tonight, he's happy as roaming around the tank. Beautiful fish. I think him and the blue tang are in love None of the fish look at all phased by the coral deaths I've had. Im guessing they're not as sensitive to UV as much as acro's - and probably because they move around all day Chim once I get my frags to grow I will share too. Thanks Fay, appreciate the offer. I've given away so many frags in the past (from the small amount that I could share) and all those who I gave too have been generous to offer them straight back so thanks to all those people. Now just have to plan the upgrade... oh wait, there's that little problem called money... :lol: Just looking at dates of events, and looking further into the potassium dosing (pohl's k-balance) which commenced on the 3rd of October. Things went down hill 1 week after the first days dosing (initial dosing was 1ml per 100 litres for the first 4 days then twice weekly after that) Could the rapid increase in potassium have effected the corals alot faster? I think I read from wasp that TN in the tips could occur if too much was added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Big Acro not looking too good chim..... Small one and tabletop are holding at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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