Kermit

Thanks everyone for your replies, we've decided to go with the sump as we're both familiar with them (As for the Marine setup) and most running gear can be hidden likes the heater, etc... We're going to try a couple of Fluro's for a starter but may go the MH way if the plants don't like it, it amazing how fast the wattage of fluro's can quickly jump up when trying to get a good light level and most times MH work out just as cheap if not cheaper, i'm a sparky by trade so running gear and lamps are Cheeeap especially around the 5000-6500k rating so its going to be a trial thing. As for feeding thanks as we were woundering if she wasn't feeding enough, and was going to feed them more but not anymore. Just another couple of questions, q1a. whats the normal flow rate of water for a Fresh tropical? q2a. Filter media, filter wool, charcoal, anything else we'd like to keep the system as simple as possible and not a fan on chemical dosing except were no other means is possible. thanks again everyone my wife will in touch soon and fill you all in on her progress. Rob & Mich

Hi all i'm better known in the marine section of this forum, as many of us "Blocks" in the hobby my wife constantly nags at me over the time i spend on the tank (but the cute little fishies how are they supose to survive without their daddy ) so we went out and set up her own fresh water tank so yippy she's off my back and she even understands my psycotic obsession with the fishies. Her tank is currently 75L and she has 4 FAT little Neon tetras, 9 Stunt defying Tiger Tetras, 1 haggady white saimese fighter, 1 some what sucker type fish, and 2 small Discuses. the story is that i'm upgrading so she's got to upgrade at the same time (you know the usual every dollar i spend she spends twice as much :roll: ) she'd like to upgrade to a 4'L x 2'w x 2'h tank to house the current fish she has and do some aqua scaping with the plants, longs , etc.... i know with the marine hobby light spectrum and intensity is important to growth of plant life no suprise really but cos we never had a fresh water setup before we're just wondering whats the deal on the other side of the fence, so below is some questions we have regarding fresh water so please help as my wife would apretiate your input. q1. Whats the light spectrums used in "K" rating i.e 6500K and do you use more then one type for different efects? q2. What type of lightings used Fluro's, Metal Halides, Sodium Vapour, etc... and what's the advantages q3. Whats the normal filtration used? q4. do sumps have a place in fresh water systems? q5. my wifes discus seem hangry all the time she feeds them twice a day with flake and blood worms and they still seem hungry does she need to feed them more, whats the norm feeding habbits? Rob and Mich

You'll still get a shock off of 1.2mA its just not likely to kill you.

Yeah cos it touches two lines when a bird sitting on a line only sits on one thus not completing the circuit for current to flow.

That calculates to 0.3mA of current through the rersistor your RCD will be rated at either 10 or 30 mA more likely 30mA for domestic unless you have an operating theatre and do open wound surgery . What does the voltage and current do for each individual device in the sump?

Hmm you want to check what your current is to as current is the killer not voltage. Layton you might know off the top of your head, whats the level of voltage were it penetraites the skin i have a figure of 50 volts, but this may not apply in water as humidity effects the value and being in water. Robert

i've only seen the one at Petworld about two weeks ago, could till be there i might go have a look and see. Not sure what type it is.

yeah they look pretty cool a, got a shock when i seen one at Petworld Ferry road, weird looking fish man. Reef whats the best prepared food for them? Frog fish site http://www.edge-of-reef.com/antennaridi/antennaridien.htm Robert

Still pulling the damn things out 6 months later and there seems to be get more each time, mine are also walking around the tank six line wrasse doen't give two hoots about them so that sucks as i was hoping he would. O'well just have to keep on tryin, the clam doesn't seem to be bothered by them as much as he was when they first apeared, the weird thing was they didn't apear till about 3 months after i got it go figure :-? . You can get snail exit for fresh water tanks would that work in a marine system? Robert

Yeah it'l be a nice drive, count me in. Robert

:-? $5 a day scarry, my tank gosts me just $1 a day i think my big tank will cost about $3 a day when built. What are you running SteveA? Robert

If it wasn't for Vodafone we'd be still using analogue mobile phones as Telecom only upgraded to Digital because Text messaging is so popular and telecom were missing out, Telecom were and still are selling/advertising T3G services to people and they only have a few sites capable of providing the service as they're still upgrading sites i know that christchurch area T3G service was only covered between the airport and university till not so long ago. I've heard that Vodafone are upgrading their site's to the next generation as we speek and you can count that ounce they start advertising it the coverage will be more superia to telecom's half upgrade. As you can tell not a fan of T even though we use them at home. Robert

is it a screw in or double ended lamp? Reason is that maybe if it's a single ended lamp the centre contact in the lamp holder is not making contact properly with the lamp, usually the heat created from the lamps stuff the spring behind the contact preventing it push up against the lamps back contact. If so turn the lamp off wait for it to cool down and try and find something to pull the contact tab in the lamp holder forward so it will make a better contact, hope it's something as easy as this, if it works you may want to replace the lamp holder when you replace the lamp nexted. Robert

Do they, have the importer/s been fined for their actions? If so good, who are they?

Yeah i should have removed it :-? but what i'm trying to say MAF havent from what i see tried to inforce the law, they've just jumped straight into ban it all that'll stop it, mean while the importer/s have got away with it and have put the hobby in a bad possition. Rob

I agree RnB. But MAF should stand their ground with the importer/s in question and not the rest of the hobbiests/importers, fine those responsable, remove their license this would pull the rest into line would it not? I'm not having a go at MAF but this is what they're there for to inforce the laws. You dont see the police banning cars becuase of some hullagon killed someone while abusing the laws do you no usually they hit hard with fines and imprisonment to push a message across to others. Robert

Shouldn't MAF fine the importer that is in question and pull their license instead of banning all importation this would put a mesage across to others if you try then be prepared to pay the Consequences, not punish everyone else cos of one importer. Robert

Has anyone heard anything more on the subject??? Come on importers keep us informed whats going on....

True Layton no ones mentioned T5's have they another option.

Creative, how deep is your tank going to be? Do you know what your going to keep in the way of corals? if your going to keep leathers then fluro's/PC's would ok aswell its just if your going to go for anemones or acro's then MH are a recomendation. If your going to go for a MH then 150w will be ampil i have two 150w over my 4' tank and they do well, you can defently do it cheaper then the $290 that i spent as standard ballasts for 150 are around 65-85 depending on type some come with built in starters and some external starters, Brianemone you had a post on cheap 150w MH are they still avalible? The lamps are ussually the exspensive part funny enough. Robert

Here's my DIY MH, it's a 150w MH with a Sylvania 10000k lamp, osram electronic ballast,and a Luminia DL-150 housing, it ways a total of 1.7Kg. i took this to the reef meeting and most people seemed very surprised in the weight and light output of the unit. Cos i'm in the trade the unit cost me under $290 for the lot, i can't remember the price of a double 4' fluro unit at the LFS? Robert

Planing is defently fun. As for lighting DIY is a lot cheaper especially if you know an electrician that can get a deal or two . i was working out lighting the other day and i agree with Brian that MH aren't that much more then Fluro's and the running costs aren't that much more either when you work out numbers you need in fluro's compared to MH the total costs and running costs aren't that much more if any more at all. But another note to add is what are you planning on keeping? in the way of corals or are you going fish only? Fish only fluro's are fine, if you want soft corals fluro's may do depending, but if you want hard corals like Acro's or want an anemone (with clown fishies) then your better off going MH's. just something to think about. Robert

Hmm steel frme i was going to originally but i've got all this rimu timber lying around enough to build the base i'll have to think long and hard steel would be liter to but as most people say rust is a factor then wood rots hmmmm thinking thinking.

this projet has been on my mined since i first started my marine tank about 14months ago i was only going to make the sump and use it as a tank till we made the large tank and then it slowly got bigger by the day and then we decided to go ahead and make the big tank instead i was originally going to make the big tank 2100L x 1200w x 700d but when i hung the tape messure over the back of the couch to get an idea of depth my wife and i were surprised in how far 1200w was so we cut it back to 1800L x 900w x 650-700d i may go 1000w though just a thought but dont tell the wife . But o well i've got plenty of 3' and 4' tanks around so i can use those for now to keep my new fish when they're released in. I supose just having the base is really going to work out as i'll so much fredom in setting up the land scape and drilling holes and just playing around with it all. Hey reef got any cheap under water fans (Tunze) lying around i think i'll need about 4 x 6100 and a controller only kidding i think they wait for now, i'll go rob a bank first. those and 12000L/h return will give 60x turn over in the tank. Damn this hobby has consumed me, now i'm rambling on.

Well since i first posted this the price of the tank has doubled in coin and weight, so for now i'll build the stand out of solid rimu and purchase the base of the tank so i can do my aqua scaping drilling holes where needed and build the sump, may even have enough money at the end to plumb the mare up. Thanks all for your help i'm going 12mm sides and as for the base i've still got to work out but was thinking 2 x 12mm sheets laminated together by glass company as long as its safe to drill after lamination. Robert