wasp

Oh, looks like you're not prepared to put it behind us. Worth a shot, but I guess I should have figured.

Also, I've had a bunch of emails about getting banned on RC, I'm just off to work so will answer them here. For what it's worth I couldn't care less about it, it's a joke. I'm still chatting there, just not called wasp any more :lol: :lol:

Well thanks Layton for the kind words re my water quality. I did figure Alois must have told you when you suddenly stopped asking me about it. Nonetheless, compliment accepted. I am still prepared to put all this behind us, provided I can post on the zeovit thread without being told everything I said was wrong when it was not. I'm not here for a huge argument, would prefer sensible discussion. And hey - sensible stocking levels is basic to good reefing. I've seen your stocking levels, about the same as mine considering your tank is way bigger.

Layton, you said you were done. I was looking forward to some sensible discussion.

And just to remove the possibility of any future cheap shots at me, I put it on record here that I too have been banned at reef central, along with 1/2 the other zeovit users. I have no idea what for, if anyone cares to search my recent posts and find something banworthy, please let me know. Meantime I assume it is simply because I use zeovit.

Layton I'm glad you are done, but I would have to say you have said that before. Now perhaps some sensible discussion.

Joe, Thanks for a sensible question / suggestion. For me, I cannot do a before & after, because my tank is a softy only up until recently, I have only just aquired sps, there has not been enough time frame to do the "after" However, if you would like an opinion on my water quality, I would invite you to pm Reef, who saw my tank recently. I suggest Reef, because you know he will not be biased towards zeovit, anything complimentary he would say would at least be honest.

Actually AJL, the guy is reduced to hurling insults now, the basest of human reactions. We can surmise from that he is beaten and knows it. Insults are the only thing left.

Again, in the absense of anything sensible to say, critisize someone. Come and test my water. Then tell me I'm ignorant.

In the absense of anything sensible to say, critisize someone for something else. "All truth passes through three stages: First it is Ridiculed. Second, it is Violently Opposed. Third, it is Accepted as being Self-Evident.â€â€”Arthur Schopenhauer (1778-1860) Why not just drop it Layton, I don't see the point in constantly flogging a dead horse. And everybody except you can see that your theories on zeovit IS a dead horse.

Be a real good idea to drop it, I agree, and in fact a few pages ago I did try to end it. But we have this guy keep coming back talking a load of contradictory nonsense and saying the zeovit system is poisonous, does not work, etc. This misinformation sticks in my craw because I use the zeovit filtration system and it has achieved fine results for me, I do not see how I could ask for better water quality. You don't see me going around critisizing other systems, and making false and unproven statements. If he could just "fess up" the obvious that he is wrong, this whole thing will be over. But he continues to dig himself deeper.

Well all i can say is that for a guy who said - You seem to be having a huge problem with the concept.

If that is not a mental block, nothing is. Your previous post is nonsense. To paraphrase it for you in the simplest way I can, you said continuous dosing is a waste of time. They said continuous dosing is the best way to do it. If you cannot see the contradiction you need some new glasses.

It is time...

I see. It looks like we are just going to have to do this the hard way then. To start out, I have presented you with statements from two Qualified Practising Microbiologhists, that directly contradict what you have been saying. Any other rational person, having been corrected by these eminently qualified scientists, would have accepted it. I really don't want to use the word "mental block", but I am afraid that your position is untenable. Sorry, but I just don't see how you can continue to defy logic and keep arguing.

Well perhaps Layton it is time to face facts then. Just front up and admit your claims where mistaken. Do that, and this whole sorry mess you are in will go away for you

(Layton) ............Yeah Right!! (Tui)

Absolutely solid case AJL. As I said, some people would rather say anything than admit they are wrong...

As I suspected. Some people would rather say anything than admit they are wrong.

The above statement is wrong. I am going to present evidence, and then we will see if you admit it. (As you said you have no problem admitting when you are wrong). Here is a direct quote from Solbby, who is a practising qualified microbiologist. (A guy who is university trained and qualified in bacteria, and now works every day with bacteria in a professional capacity. IE he knows lots about bacteria.) He has avoided technical lingo, and has instead used common simple english, so common folks like us will be able to understand it. Quote - "when someone says: “Adding bacteria to an existing bacterial ecosystem will have zero effect on the present ecosystem†they are not necessarily true, because it will depend on the bacteria. The best analogy I can give, (I really like to use analogies), as to why this is not true is that people die from and get sick by bacterial infections. Our body, like our aquarium plays host to many different bacterial species. These bacteria set up an ecosystem in our body almost the moment we were born, and live in different niches through out. (A really cool microbiological fact to spout at dinner parties is that there are actually more bacterial cells in our bodies than human cells. So you could ask the question who is controlling whom?). If it were impossible to change that ecosystem then we would never have an infection from outside bacteria!! And as you know, everyone has gotten sick, such as food poisoning, at some point. In fact it only takes 10 bacterial cells of Shigella flexneri to completely disrupt the bacterial ecosystem of our gut with the outward disease manifestation know as bacterial dysentery, i.e. food poisoning to the likes of which you will never forget. But Shigella flexneri is special and so it goes to the nature of the specific bacterial strain that is added to the existing ecosystem as to what effects it may have on that ecosystem. So since no one, except the makers of Zeobak, knows what bacteria are present in the product and therefore their “special†nature, they are just speculating as to whether there will be an effect or not by their addition. How can they say that the bacteria present in Zeobak won’t be able to out compete the existing populations because they have some unknown selective advantage?" And now a quote from "Jakstat", another practising qualified microbiologist . Quote - "As far as biology, I don't know much about Zeo. What I do know is that if one wants to introduce a new complement of bacteria to a closed environment, one would not want to do it quickly. A small inoculation would be adequate, especially considering that the inoculation is repeated every day or two, over weeks. It would be strange to me if Zeobak did contain a high concentration of bacteria. As I've said earlier, these are living organisms that need to adjust and grow into their new environment. You can't bring these populations up and into equilibrium overnight. This is basic biology". And just to make sure you did not miss it, I'll repeat this little bit for you - "You can't bring these populations up and into equilibrium overnight". And - "to introduce a new complement of bacteria to a closed environment, one would not want to do it quickly. A small inoculation would be adequate, especially considering that the inoculation is repeated every day or two, over weeks". Hope you can see your mistake. Because the only alternative you have to admitting you are wrong, is to claim that as well as knowing more than Thomas Pohl, you now also know more than both of these University trained, Qualified, Practising Microbiologists. ( Guys that know lots about bacteria ) I rest my case, I await your admission.

What? .... Gasp!!..... Choke!! Layton that has not been my experience with you at all. On a number of occasions I have pointed out where you are wrong, backed it with proof, and you have been unable to accept it. And furthermore, I have reviewed your replies to the recent posts, and am disappointed to say that once again most of what you say is unfounded suppositions. I have to suspect that in the absense of proper evidence to back what you say you simply try to wear down your opponent with increasingly large volumes of words that really never amount to anything concrete. Sorry - but that's how it looks to me.

I'd go with Chimera here, 1/2 shrimp is a heckuva lot, and if it takes them 10 minutes to eat, that is also way to much. Word of warning on shrimps, if you get those shelled ones from the supermarket deli, they dunk them in sodium phosphate. Helps them stay fresh looking, but bad news for the aquarium. Even washing them will not remove it. Getting them still in the shell is OK. IMO the best way to gauge feeding levels is to see how the fish look. If they are not skinny, they are getting enough. But giving them all they will eat is a bad plan, their instinct is to eat as much as they can if the opportunity presents, but if you do that every day they will end up just crapping most of it out & add to the tank pollution. Really you should feed the minimum that will keep them looking healthy.

That quote sounds like Bluereef, am I correct?

There's a catch - If there is hair algae in the tank, the tang will soon tire of it & not eat it. But put some in when he hasn't had any for a while, and he will enjoy it, but only a small amount. I suspect hair algae manufactures something to deter fish from eating it. What you people all doing up this time of night? Haven't got beds to go to? :lol:

Surprised the clowns are outcompeting the Tang. How about feeding meaty type foods first, and then the nori, once the clowns have had a feed they will not be interested much in the nori so the Tang can chow down. Mysis are OK, but brine shrimp are very nutrient poor and should only be an occasional treat, if at all. If feeding mysis, pay to wash it first in RO water, it is a very messy food. Personally I think a quality flake food can be a good thing. Another good one is mussel, you get some live ones, boil just enough to open, chop up, and serve. Can be frozen. Very nutritious and the fish love it. When I can get a rock with a bit of hair algae or similar on it, I put it in the tank for the tang (when I had one), they like to pick at it.