Ira

This setup and an UGF are totally unrelated, Henry. Unless I'm misunderstanding your question.

How big is your tank? I think they're probably more trouble than they're worth, and with pumps that small they'll probably not even make a noticable difference.

Another $200 is half a weeks wages, a big chunk of a MH, a couple fish, most of what I'd need for a sump, etc...After I've got a topoff system and some lighting maybe I'll worry about it.

Because for the time being I'd rather live with the extra organics than the extra cost and massive amount of waste water.

If it makes you feel any older I'd have been 7 months old at the time...

Ah, RO/DI, forgot most people need that...For the moment that's on my don't need list because I'm on tank water. And the Berlin...Well...No doesn't include that, but it was only $120 and that included a pump that would have cost me near that anyway that I still plan to use eventually for a sump or closed loop. Planning on finally getting some fish about beginning of July since I'm going to christchurch, about time!

For my tank, so far, for a FOWLR without a sump, not including the price of the tank I'm up around $1350 for hardware and I don't think there's anything major left that I absolutely need. That's skimmer, liverock(For this we'll call it hardware), a couple powerheads, test kits and a few light tubes. Of course there's heaps more you can spend, that would be nice but I think I've got the minimum now. So, I'd say $1500ish for a 4 ft 220 L FOWLR If you already have the tank and stand. Maybe $3K if you have to include the price of the stand new or have a sump along with all the expensive luxury bits like...I dunno, a tunze osmoregulator.

I see what Pies is saying, there will be a small amount of water going out through the skimmer being replaced with fresh, not salt. But, relative to the size of the tank and taking water changes into account minimizing it even more...Well, it'd probably take months for it to make a difference and you'd likely be checking the SG far more often than that and can dump in an extra cup of FW if it's crept up a bit.

$250 secondhand...Hmmm, Ok, that option is definitely out. Back to the float valve idea for top up. No hurry though for me.

I didn't notice until she told me. I was sure I'd used up all the shrimpcubes too.

Sounds like he's got what I'm aiming for long term, just mine will be a foot longer.

Hey, Pies, how much did the peri pump cost you?

Just filter out the BBS, pour them into ice cube trays and top off with fresh water. One suggestion, make sure wifey doesn't accidentally use a stray brine shrimp icecube in the cocktails...

Hmmm, I think the bar looks better than the new fluval nozzle thing and I like the current better from the spraybars.

I usually prefer mine to make a bit of splashing too. Though, mine are below the surface a little pointed upwards enough they still splash a little. I like the sound.

They're usually called something like electromagnetic pumps. Not something you'd normally find in a small LFS, but they're around and they should be able to order them for you. Usually they do 1000+LPH and are pretty big and expensive.

Although, it does look interesting having the spray bar above the waterline pointed straight down. Looks kinda like a reverse waterfall of bubbles.

Yep, it's just fine. Only concern is if you've got some really high drain stuff on them. Most are good to at a kilowatt or two and you're not likely to go over that on a FW tank.

Hey, Pies, we should start a marine store! We'd have a monopoly and make heaps of money!

Hmmm, I hadn't thought of that, I don't think the 200 will fit in my boot. I don't think I'd want to try and take it to the ocean itself to collect water anyway, probably just dump the water into it at home. Dunno how I'd manage to lift a 400lb+ container out of the boot anyway...

You had disable BBcode checked. So that disabled the img tags. But, then on top of that webshots doesn't allow remote linking, so you can't use them to store your pictures if you want to post them on a MB.

And buying a pair of 5s or even three 4s would probably cost heaps less anyway. And be easier to fit in a nice out of the way spot.

Haha, You don't have to replace the media. Not more than every few years, anyway.

I think bettas and gouramis likely can live for quite a while out of water as long as they're kept wet. I'd guess a few hours, but not something I'd want to test. Neons, guppies, etc. I'd guesstimate maybe a minute, they might be alive longer than that but I'd say more than that they'd just be too stressed and damaged and would likely die soon afterwards. Discus and arowana...Probably a few minutes for both because they're bigger. But, it's like saying, "Hey, Breakaway! How long can you survive if I shoved your head underwater?"

I had a look at those a few days ago. From the looks of it, it requires a pulsing water flow. When it has pressure it extends a bit and rotates then retracts when the flow stops. So, something like one on each side of the tank with a scwd alternating the flow between them might be kind of like a cheap sea swirl. That's assuming you don't have anything that turns the pump on and off.