Pies

Looks to be this one: JBL Proflora CO2 Set Vario 500 Profi Set 1 Pie

Aaron - Welcome to the Internet. If you think your treatment on this board has been unfair or in breach of the rules for this site report it to a MOD. I've seen some of your posts and I would say that you give as good as you get. Just because someone does't agree with you doesn't mean they don't like you, or arn't even interested in hearing what you have to say. People come here to learn and to share, like EVERY other forum I am invloved with there is always debate. I think you will find that even the people that you may feel are giving you a hard time would love to meet and would readly invite you into their home to discuss and debate the finer points of the hobby. Go to the meeting, if anyone starts to get to lippy, give em the bash Pie

IRA - Yeah I understand the meeting is at my place tommorow. I don't have enough Kalk to sell, but will give you enough to make an Aipstasia Death Mix if you want it. I have 2 Aipstasia I know of, maybee I can demonstrate the killing power of the kalk there and then (need an excuse to kill em, have been lazy). Piez

I have the JBL freshwater system, bottle, regs, co2 defuser. I would sell it. Sells for about $600 in the shop, would consider offers around the $350.00 mark. Same system (glass spiral co2 defusor on suction cups). Check online for the details of the JBL kit, doesn't come with solinoid (I never bothered) or PH controller. Pieman

Ira - Have you tried kalwasser paste? I got given some joes juice and had little success with it, I had better casulty rates with the kalk paste. Mix it into runny toothpaste and squeeze it into their mouth and if possibe cover their base with it, they melt, never to be seen again. Pie

Freshwater for about 17 years (with a 4 year break somewhere near the middle). Enjoyed the technical aspect and the challenge of growing plants and the whole ecosystem of a tank. Went into a full blown SPS dominated tank, spent over 9 months planing (and saving!) for it. Lots of help during the period from Reef & JetSkiSteve (still friends back then!). Personally I enjoy the coral and biology more than the fish, hence my lighter than normal fish load. Pie

Chimera - Well put and about right. I would be astonished if you could set-up a tank for long-term success for less than 3k (exclusive of stock). I've seen people try, but they either give up because they don't have the money to see it through or give up when it crashes. Observation - Myself & Chimera arn't in this 'selling' business, we offer advice because we think its right based on our own experance. I often feel bad because I am always giving Chimera a hard time about the way he does things. However remember that there is nothing in it for us, we are not selling equipment or livestock, we are just being friendly and offering adivce that we think is right. No disrespect to the store owners intended, but this is often the worse place to start. Take your time, ask lots of questions, belive what you want to belive, ignore the rest. Pie

Discrimination? Really? I would like to race Ferrari's and fly jets, is it discrimination becaue I can't afford to do so? Pffffft. Not sure if I agree with this statement, everything I have read has pointed out that small systems are very challenging, havn't done one myself as it sounds too hard. That aside, is it possible to do it properly without spending some money (refer to my list of equipment above), and by some money I am talking about well over $1,000.00. Pie

I think part of the 'problem' and the reason why people get so personal has to do with 'responsibility'. Someone said somewher you could get a couple of clownfish and put them into a bowl and keep them alive. Maybee. I think the killer for most of us is we find this kind of thing offensive. I hate seeing the 'nemo' tanks in pet stores for this very reason. Where is IRA? IRA started a marine tank on a mega budget, and has done everything within his power to contain his costs. I know origionally he wanted and thought he could do it for under $500 (excluding stock). Be interested to know where his spending is at, I know its over $1k. Talk about not running a skimmer. The bottom line is that any advice from anyone to a beginner to not use a skimmer is bad advice. Now I am well aware that you can run a tank without one, infact I would like to see this become the norm (they are so damn expensive), but skimmerless tanks are best left to experts. I doubt anyone would dissagree with me on that. Price - I personally think its good to see people scaring people off about the cost of things. Even if the numbers are wrong its a good way to prep people, and if the price does scare them off, better that than killing the animals and getting frustrated with the hobby anyway. I know my own example is'nt a good one as I have invested heavly in my own setup, but my friends and people I know from this board have all spent a lot on their tank, and single spends of $500+ are not all that uncommon. What I don't like: I don't like the attitude of 'buy the minimum now' add stock, then add the other stuff later. If you are not reccomending things like: TANK, FRESH WATER SUPPLY, ROCK, SKIMMER, TEST KITS (PH, KH, NITRATE minimum), Refractomoter/hydrometer, LIGHTING, CIRCULATION PUMPS, TIMERS, HEATER, SALTWATER SUPPLY, BUCKETS, JERRY CANS, NETS, FILTER WOOL, FROZEN FISH FOOD, THERMOMOTOR before the addition of live stock you deserve critisisim. Let the potentioal aquairust understand the costs and the complications first. If they accept them, then do what you can to help them spend there money as wisley as possible. If they don't accept them, at least you have stopped someone from wasting money on something that is mostly likely going to be a failure. Rock MUST be added to the cost of the tank setup, its an important key to the success of a tank using rock as its primary source of biological filteration, as important as a filter would be in a freshwater tank or an engine in a race car. Stock - You are going to have to spend money on it, doesn't matter if you factor it in or not, you will have to spend money on it so why not show this up-front. Not many sub $150.00 yellow tangs out there. Pie

An interesting thread in many ways, with some comercial 'flavor' to it from my observation point. My question to Petplanet is: Are you promoting the fact that marines can be done for a 'budget' ($500ish) because you know its going to be easier to sell them than come in and say 'spend 5k +'. When I started my first marine tank I tried to do it 'cheap', not dirt cheap but cheap. My observation is that $1,000.00 does not go very far. I also find some comments about stocking levels interesting. 9 Fish in a 250 litre tank, I have 15 fish in a 1400 litre tank. Still though again I guess its good for the customers to know they can cram them into their small tanks. Piemania

I dissagree, there is no such thing as too much flow (although theoreticly its possible). You can't have too much, some corals may dissagree though (SPS, some softies, mushrooms will like much less). In the wild I have swam acrross reefs where the current is so turbid you couldn't stand in even knee high water without being washed away. How many x per hour would you need to create so much flow you couldn't stand in your tank? Quite a lot I am guessing. Pie

You won't get Arcadia from any electrical supplier, as they are branded for the pet industry. All thats important is the kelvin and wattage. Not sure about the 10,000k bulbs but 6500k are easy to find. As for 'Marine Blue Actinic' just ask for "Phillips 03 actinic - blue" and they will find em for you, fairly common (Wilsons carpark on Cortney Place is lit with 03 Blue tubes from OSRAM. Pie

POMEREEF: Yup thats what I am talking about. I am using the AQUAMEDIC stuff in this confiuration right now, but would like to go to ROWA as its very well thought of in the UK. Piola

SteveA has some great acros, with various colours. He actually runs several tanks, one of the tanks I have seen has 2 plate acros about twice the size of a large dinner plate, both grown from frags. Brian - Are you more interested in the staghorn like corals and growth patterns more than the colours? There are a few good fast growing staghorns around at the moment, the fastest growing one I have seen is a brown coral with blue/silver tips. I have 2 pieces and both are by far my fastest growing corals. Pie

All of those acros (well not sure excatly about those acros but good coloured ones) are available here. I am a few stunners at the moment, pure purple with white polyps, several tricolours, 2 blues, several greens. Also got one turning red, but not sure what its up to Pie

You can use any bottole you want, as long as it passes its cert. If its had other gas in it you will need to have it cleaned (acid cleaned). Otherwise no drama. I think for Co2 is has to be steel not alumuium? Pie

Control - Not sure, other than weighing it how do I know? Its about knee high, short and squat. I will ask next time I get it filled if I remember, won't be till Chirstmas though... I wish I brought a larger one now as I originally got it to fit under my cabinet, but don't need to worry about that now. Anyone got a big one they want to swap? Pieola

I own both of mine. 1 was supplied by JBL in one of their original c02 freshwater systems and the other I brought directly from BOC gas for $150.00. It was 2nd hand and needed to be certified, which cost $35 including the fill. needs retesting every 5 years. Pie

Happy with it except for the the fact that its broken

? Its a compressed gas bottle, not much too see. There is probably a pic on page one or two of my tank setup thread next to my CA ractor under than sump on the left (its yellow). Pie

Its all happening now. Its a 3 stage project. Stage one is build 1 wall, plaster and sand. Then stage 2 is move the sump, finish plumbing. Stage 3 is build the other wall, paint and seal. Currently the wall is up, bolted to ground-floor and fixed to cealing. Door has been hung. Bats are in all 3 walls (1 wall is absent so I can get the sump in). Electricy wiring is all there, just needs connection and RCD installed. Also am adding an 'Expel air' to avoid condensation/moisture build up. Have about 1/3 the Gib on the walls. Plan is to finished gibing, plastering and get a sealer coat of pain on by the end of this weekend. Then plan to move the sump in approx 3 weeks. Am getting another sump made to fit undet the old 740 litre tank, with an overflow hole being drilled through the wall and going outside so there will NEVER be another drop of water on the floor again (have flooded the garage a few times). Its all happening. Pie

I agree with you Ira, no doubt some will die, but then its either die in the pump or a few seconds later in the tank Life as a pod is a dangerous affair frought with peral at every corner. Pie

Because of the turnover of water through the system, it wouldn't matter if you had 1 or 2 in that order? The only important aspect would be that the live foods get to the tank. All of the 'nuitrients' will be skimmed/uptaken by as the water cycles. Wouldn't matter if the 'nutrients' did a couple of laps before being sucked out. My system works as you describe it above, almost. except out of the 1 sump (nutrient export/refugium) half the wate travels through my skimmer, the other half straight into my dedicated refugium before returning to the tank. When I move sumps, half of all display water will drop into the skimmer the rest into the refugium/nutrient-export sump, then into refugium/sump then return to the tank. I think this is the optimal setup and what I am going to do when I move everything. Pieman

Just had a looks though some of my books and a quick google search, its definatly algae. Pieola

I don't own Reef Inverts but I have read it through it, I would consider adding it to my collection particualry if there are more comming. Great photography. As a side note I really like Bob Fenner's general attitude and ideas towards the hobby. I enjoy reading his stuff on wwm. I wish Bourneman would re-release his book and expand upon it Pie