Kindergarten tank

[Kerrie]

Kia Ora,  what a great forum. 

The kindergarten has had a small 20l tank donated. I use to have tanks (canada) so I thought I would set this up for the children.  I have discovered Wellington water very alkaline, and I would like to set up tetras, like 6 neons which would make a nice calming and colourful tank for children. First thing I want to ask is recommended products for my water; there are many brands, all expensive, what to choose and why? 

I am going to add some drift wood now to help pH. Should I buy water? The price can not get out of control. 

Thanks, kerrie

 

[Caryl]

I wouldn't worry about the alkalinity. I am sure the fish being sold in shops are in plain Wgtn water. You could ask them to test the pH of their shop tanks to check.

The acidity is more important when breeding them.

Once you start mucking about with the water you have endless problems keeping it stable, especially in such a small tank.

I used to keep Africans and they were perfectly happy in neutral water instead of the alkaline waters it is said they prefer. The breeder pointed out he was breeding them in neutral water and since his fish couldn't read they didn't know they were supposed to prefer it a lot more alkaline 

How alkaline is Wgtn water? It surely can't be too bad as councils try to keep the water as neutral as possible to protect the pipework.

[livingart]

As Caryl has said it should be good to go using tap water.

[Kerrie]

The shops refuse to sell me fish, asking if the water has been conditioned etc etc etc.  The water here is at top of pH scale (7.6).  I don't have another test kit.  I'll just teach the children to do the water changes!

[Ira]

Good to hear a shop refusing to sell fish if they don't think you can house them properly.

 

I think Wellington tap water is fine, but I've never used it.

[nays]

The water here in Wellington is slightly alkaline, about pH 7.5 but very soft, 2 deg KH and GH, out of my tap anyway.  Tetras are fine in it.  The water here is chlorinated so you will need to use water conditioner.  Any brand of water conditioner is fine because Wellington water does not contain chloramine.  Don't buy water, and don't try to adjust the pH for them.  It is not only unnecessary, but will potentially cause dangerous swings in the water chemistry, especially in such a small tank.  Some driftwood won't hurt but isn't necessary, may not reduce the pH much if at all, and will reduce the amount of water in the (already tiny) tank. 

I would recommend either cycling the tank at home for a few months before taking it to the kindergarten, or use cycled media if possible, as in a tiny tank there's a fair chance of losses and the children might be upset by dead fish.  I personally wouldn't put tetras (or any fish except fry, actually) in a 20 litre tank.  If you really want to use the tank, a betta would be more suitable.  A veiltail betta costs $20 from Animates, only a couple of bucks more than six neons at about $3 each.  Bettas are more interactive as well; neons will just dart away whenever the children approach but a betta will swim up to them and say hi.  Bettas are also hardier than neon tetras.

I hope it goes without saying that you will need a filter and heater.  Be careful with letting the kids help maintain the tank, electricity and water and all that...

If you want a little cycled media I can help you out, let me know :-)

[alanmin4304]

Any water that is chlorinated will contain chloramines because they are created by the chlorine demand before free available chlorine is available

 

[alanmin4304]

When you add chlorine to water you get hypochlorous acid which reacts with nitrogen compounds like ammonia,urea and the amines (in all proteins) and forms monochloramine. When you add more chlorine you get dichloramine and even more you get trichloramine. All these (and other reactions) form part of the "chlorine demand" in the water. You cannot get free available chlorine until this "chlorine demand" is satisfied. Therefore when the reaction is pushed towards trichloramine there will be virtually no monochloramine present. In some states in the US they treat the water with monochloramine (made by reacting chlorine with ammonia) because chlorine will react with other impurities in the water and form some compounds that are not so nice (such as acetone) where as monochloramine will not. Monochloramine is not as effective in treating water as chlorine which is used in NZ but is still a strong oxidising agent.

When people complain that the chlorine in a swimming pool is too strong and it is burning their eyes the problem usually is that the free available chlorine has been used up by contaminants in the water (such as urea) and this has pushed the chloramines back towards the monochloramine and this is what is burning their eyes. The problem is fixed by adding more chlorine.

When you allow water to stand or aerate it to get rid of the chlorine the chloramines all move back to monochloramine and this will react with your fish the same as an under chlorinated swimming pool will with your eyes.

Chlorine and all chloramines can be converted to more harmless chemicals with the addition of sodium thiosulphate which is the active ingredient you are buying from the petshop with dechlorinating products.

Drinking water will contain various impurites that add to the chlorine demand and will form chloramines and other compounds. Ammonia is a bi product of the reaction when adding thiosulphate to chlorinated water. Chlorine only is used to sanitize water supplies in NZ and when you add chlorine you will always get chloramines unless you use distilled water.

[nays]

Thanks Alan; I meant that our water supplier does not add chloramine to disinfect.  My understanding is that where chloramine is used, a water conditioner that converts ammonia to ammonium (such as Prime) is advisable because the sodium thiosulphate will release the ammonia from the chloramine.  I'm sure you're correct that our tap water will contain some chloramine even without it being added, but as I've never detected ammonia after using water conditioner, I'm assuming the amount is so small as to be insignificant?

[alanmin4304]

My point is that it will always be there in a chlorinated water supply so use prime. The amount of chloramine present will depend on the chlorine demand and therefore how much chlorine will need to be added before obtaining free available chlorine (which is the point in adding it). Water from a river will have a lot higher chlorine demand than a pristine water supply.