Kazz Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 I set up a tropical freshwater tank (300L) at the weekend and the water has a white cloudiness to it. There was some dust from the noodles in the filter which I had forgotten to wash out and I think it is this that is causing the cloudiness. What should I be checking and what can I do to clear the water. I have treated twice with Accu-clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 HI Kazz, Time is the best treatment, my tanks go cloudy when I fill them, or when I do a water cahnge, it will clear over time. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 May be either dust from the noodles or an algae bloom. Both will clear, give it a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Filter wool may help clear it up faster too. I usually just rubber band it around the filter's intake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazz Posted April 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Thanks guys for the support. The water has now cleared and I have added some fish, some lovely neon and rummy nose tetras. I will have to have more patience as I wanted to bring home all sorts of fish. I'm hoping to have a communtiy tank with some discus as a focal point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Control yourself!! :lol: Slow and steady does it when adding fishes to a new tank. Leave it at least 2 weeks before adding more and do water tests for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Controlling yourself is soooooooo hard when you see all those lovely fishes that just want to hop in the car with you!!!!...HAVE to look....so hard to keep the eftpos card in the purse! Patience........(I want them NOW!) *sits on hands......fidgets a lot.....reads more fishy books.....counts up the pennies...* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGilchrist Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 We all know the feeling, its hard work waiting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 It's harder work setting up the new tank because you couldn't wait and so got a new tank for the other fish you want grrr @ MTS I say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Cant wait, go and buy some cycle from your LFS Speeds up the process /Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazz Posted April 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Yeah, I put in that cycle stuff in when I setup the tank and planted it. Can you have to many plants? They're a bit like the fish and all have my name on them, how can I resist!!!! You can't not go into the shop when your car just takes you there, that would be rude. I tell myself just a little look. The only way to restrain myself is to remind myself what will happen to those poor fishies if I get too many too soon, patience. Its sooooooooo hard to resist their little looks. Thanks for reinforcing the patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 I never noticed any product particularly helping to speed up the process. You can have too many plants - when they are so thick the fish have nowhere to swim! Always leave a clear swimming space, otherwise the more the merrier and the fish will feel more secure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 As Caryl says there is no magic potion that speeds this process up. It is the bacteria that have to grow and this takes time. Once you have one tank setup you can speed up the process by moving a filter and/or gravel from a running tank to a new one, for this reason I run two filters on my main tank, if I need to set up another tank in a hurry I can just move a filter, bacteria and all on to the new tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Eeeeek! I can hardly see through my tank it has gone so cloudy!. I am trying really hard to see what I have done differently...the only thing I can think of is I tried feeding the fish some cucmber as suggested here. It took a couple of days and I noticed the tank starting to loo a bit cloudy....and decided I wouldnt give them cucumber again. I couldnt even find the rind/skin (whatever you call it) I think they ate that too!.... So I cleaned out the filter...this is the new fluval 404 i got about 3 weeks ago...and was stunned at how dirty it was (I thought this was a good thing..meaning my new filter was doing a treeeee-mendous job). Anyway put it all back together replaced only the filter wool. (the tank was cloudy BEFORE i did all this)....the cloudiness has become progressively worse. I did a 30% water change on Wednesday. It was still looking awful last night. All of the fish and plants look fine with the exception of some of the bigger fish one of my large gouramis is at the top taking breaths...and just staying there...I wouldn't say gasping but obviously feeling the need for air. The 2 kissing gouramis looked a little seedy but are ok...they tend to be strange fish at any time. So last night...watching this poor gourami....I did about a 40% water change and pulled apart the filter again...re-read the book that came with it (I think it is impossible to put the thing together incorrectly). I noted that the order of the filter media in the book was different to what the guy at animates suggested he set it up for me with the bottom to trays with ceramic noodles the middle tray with carbon and the top tray with plain old dacron. In the book it said the noodles should go on top and the filter wool on the bottom. He said the carbon should be replaced every 2 months.... in the book it said every month. I have replaced it. I dont like using accu clear (and am not sure it would be effective with carbon in the filter anyway) but did try that....nothing. The readings are pretty typical of my tanks readings.... PH is slightly bluer than the highest reading on the scale of 7.6 (has always sat around 7.4 - 7.6) ammonia is .6 ,Nitrite .05, Nitrate (as far as I can tell I always have trouble deciding which 'pink' my nitrate is) 10, GH 4 drops (80) , KH 4 drops (40). Temp 26. Not even overstocked right now as i have swiped fish out of there for cycling other tanks. I am contemplating moving all the fish and starting from scratch as it looks awful! but I really dont want to have to start cycling my main tank again and lumping all the fish in the smaller tanks. Any advice gratefully received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 With the ammonia and nitrite readings you've got, the fish will be very troubled. That's why the gourami's are at the surface. Ammonia inhibits gill function and the fish suffocate. There also seems to be a lot more fish in the tank than there were a week ago. Weren't there just neons and rummynose then? Seems you haven't waited long enough for the tank to cycle. You will need to find a temporary home for your fish until the tank finishes cycling. Then you can add the fish back a few ata a time about a week apart until they are all back. Tanks typically take a month to cycle. Putting too many fish in too quick usually causes major problems. The cloudiness is possibly a bacterial bloom. The bacteria will compound the problem as they use up the oxygen. This combined with the high ammonia level plus high pH will cause the fish a lot of stress. You could use ammo-lock to instantly lock the ammonia but you will still need to do water changes to bring the level down to under 0.25. The tank will then need to be left alone to finish the cycle with weekly waterchanges of 10-25%. Accu-clear may help as it should floc the bacteria so they get stuck in the filter. Do not buy any more fish until the tank has cycled, - at least 2 more weeks. Ammonia also gets more toxic as the pH goes up. You may need to bring the pH down. If you do this, make the change gradual, no more than 0.5 change a day. Add the pH lowering liquid slowly, a little bit at a time over a couple of hours. While your fish are in temporary homes you will need to check the ammonia level in those tanks too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 i'm new here, and am very surprised to here that a tank is being cycled with fish !, this is cruel and should not happen, there are ways of cycling tanks without using fish, cycling can take anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks. the nitrogen cycle as it is called, must have ammonia in it to complete the cycle, Ammonia,Nitrites, Nitrates. i am currently cycling a 300ltr marine tank, its been 4 weeks so far and i expect at least another 4 to go, and i'm not using fish. i have put a small bottle of cycle in my tank to start the bacteria, but i still need ammonia to complete the cycle. please tell me if i'm wrong. rgds muddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Hi Warren and thanks for your comments but I think you are confusing me with someone else. There are less fish in my tank now than there have been for probably a couple of months. my PH has always been a little high.....I have mentioned here before about not being able to budge my .05 nitrate and the ammonia sits between 0 and 0.6. Nitrate has been sitting at about 10 for a few weeks now and i commented on it here worried about it as I have been doing 30% water changes weekly and nothing has budged....(previously my nitrate was barely readable with just the slightest tinge of pink) and was told not to worry about the Nitrate as the levels were acceptable (I was striving for 0 for ammonia,0 nitrite AND 0 nitrate.) no it wasn't me with the neon tetras and rummy nose and the tank (360 litres) has been going now for about 4 months. Certainly there is no way I will be adding fish to the tank until i get this sorted. As i said i was worried about shifting the fish to the other (newer and still cycling) tanks.... other products i use are aqua plus watewr conditioner and cycle....i am unsure if either is effective with having carbon in the filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 I think you might be muddy.... dont get me wrong...i am not throwing a dozen fish in to cycle a tank but as i understand it you need the waste products from fish to get the process started. I have put no more than three small fish in the new tanks (black widows/scissortails) to start the process. I just read on here tonight...(sorry cant remember what heading it was under) about someone having trouble thinking they were cycling their tank as advised by the pet store by having it empty for a week...and someone else replying that the pet store should be more accountable/responsible for the information they give out as you need fish to cycle a tank. This is where I find this site so valuable...as I didnt even know about cycling a tank till I came here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 oh.... having said that.... i don't know if the process is the same for a marine tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 You can cycle a tank without fish (I haven't tried this), search for "fishless cycling" on google. I think now if I ended up in the situation of having no cycled tanks to run filters in I would find someone else with a cycled tank and ask really nicely if I could run my filter in it for a week or two before setting my tank up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 I found the post i was telling you about Muddy it is under the welcome page..."hi from Dunedin" (or something like that). Yes I have heard of fishless cycling but understand that most prefer to use fish and or water/substrate/ filter from an established tank. I currently have 2 filters running in one of my tanks so that the tank I collect tomorrow can have a head start. I was also going to use water from my main tank but won't be now with it being such a mess. What I want to know is...what happened. this tank has been doing great now for a couple of months...we certainly had some hiccups at the start..... but for this to happen...within the last few days...out of nowhere is really baffling....not to mention distressing... I do not like to see my fish looking stressed. I have moved the 2 kissing gouramis that were a bit seedy and they are fine in a newer tank which i am keeping a close eye on the readings of. The golden gourami (one of two that came with a tank we bought a few weeks back) is the only other fish in the tank that appears to be stressed despite it (the tank) looking so terrible the other fish seem happy. Help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Just an update. Thanks everyone for your advice. I wouldnt mind some clarification of what levels (if any) is acceptable for over 0 for ammonia and nitrite. my tanks seem to fluctuate between 0 and 0.6 which is the very slight yellowing next to the '0' on the chart....i do know that 0 is desirable but is 0.6 really THAT bad? Same with Nitrite....mine has sat at about 0.05 for weeks now...in fact...it was 0 in the very early stages of cycling..... and went up to .05..... recently another fishy person told me that nitrate is acceptable up to 40! (horrors! I hyperventilated when mine shot up to 20 once!) Anyway. I have just finished a large water change as i felt the situation was quite desperate and something had to be done NOW....it would have been about an 80% change and added cycle and aqua plus. I don't like doing such a dramatic change as I worry about the stress on the fish but i felt it couldnt have been any worse than the stress the cloudiness was causing. Re-reading your replies.... it was only one gourami that i consider was stressed by the water conditions...one of the golden gouramis...the other was fine. The kissing gouramis are very odd fish at the best of times so I wasn't too worried about them.... they were still cleaning leaves and flitting about but one has been spending a bit of time on the tank making me worried...then the next time i lok she has gone and is busy cleaning again. The golden gourami i was concerned about wasnt desperate....but was causing concern as she didnt just go up to take a gulp of air and go back down like they do she was taking quite a few breaths....i would not say it was as dramatic as gasping...in fact it definitely wasn't...she was just staying up there which is out of character for her and with the water condition made me worried. All my other gouramis (5 others extra to the ones i have described) were/are fine. I'm looking at the tank now and they are active in there. I sincerely hope there are no losses over night. oh...and i cracked my glass lid too .... Still a little concerned in case i have done something wrong with the newish filter....i have put it back on now.....and if the tank looks cloudy in the morning i shall assume the filter is at fault and return it. i am heading to Christchurch in a few hours lol (better get some sleep) ....but i shall check my water conditions in the morning. Thanks again for your very valued input people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Hi Shelley, Just reading through some of your posts. I would say that the cucumber was the start of your probs, as if left too long it will cloud the water very quickly. I also notice that you tend to be cleaning your filter quite often, as you mentioned you were surprised to see how dirty it was. It's supposed to be dirty... and cleaning it too often will kill off the bacteria it is meant to hold. If you want a "quick fix" to your cloudy water, then beg, borrow, or steal the dirtiest old filter you can from an "established" tank. An old corner filter, (older the better).. or a sponge type will do, as long as it is gungy and from an established tank. A filter of this type will hold vast amounts of the beneficial bacteria that is needed to combat the bad bacteria that is possibly causing your tank to be cloudy. Keep up with the water changes, and if you can get a filter as above, your water should clear within a day or so. You don't mention your feeding schedule... or if you have any live plants. Feed only what the fish will consume in five minutes or so, and the plants will help with your other probs. Don't be "too" concerned about the pH... it's within safe limits. Also.... "Don't fret so much"... calm down and try to stop having everything "By the book" so to speak. The water changes should bring your Nitrite/Nitrate/Ammonia levels down, but try to replace the water with some of the same temp to avoid stress. Chopping and changing things or adding this and that will give you an ulcer... so work on one prob at a time and try to keep track of what you are doing by keeping a few notes. Also check behind/under any rocks or ornaments to see that there isn't any decaying cucumber there.. or dead fish... you never know. Regards, Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Thank you Bill. This is what I LOVE about this forum. What helpful advice....although it has been a very steep learning curve the last 4 months (looks shamed that she didn't do sufficient homework first).....I know that there is still HEAPS I don't know so I am very grateful for any insights. Prior to the new filter I had a cannister filter which came with the tank...the guy said it was sufficient for the tank but for a 360 litre tank I don't think 500 litres per hour is sufficient (based on what I have read...)although it did a reasonable job. Basically I had been giving it a clean probably every second water change. We got the new filter on 3-04-05 and the first time I cleaned that was this last Wednesday (20-04). Yes... I wasn't quite sure what to do as I realised to clean it up would be to wash away some of the beneficial bacterias. But I was wondering if the reason for the tank being so cloudy was because the filter needed a clean. That it had done such an efficient job it was clogged with gunk. I don't actually believe this to be the case and was rather thrilled with the muck that came out of it realising that my previous filter hadn't dopne nearly as much work. In the mean time the previous filter went into a smaller tank I am cycling.....and i did put THAT filter back into the main tank to try and see if it was something wrong with the new filter (more likely the person operating it). The only thing I changed was the filter wool. However when the tank remained cloudy and seemed to be getting worse and I did another water change, I wondered if the carbon wasn't doing it's job either so changed that (still at this point thinking that maybe it was in my reconstructing of the filter I had done something wrong.) I am inclined to agree that the cucumber was the start of the problem. The fish only showed a vague interest in it when I first put it in. The next morning some had been eaten and the gouramis were enjoying it...the following morning there was hardly any left at all. Maybe I should have taken it out after the first 24 hours. I was due to do a water change and by the time I got all the lids off there was no sign of even the skin (which had been floating around the tank.) Definitely within 12 hours of the cucumber going into the tank I noticed the first signs of cloudiness though nothing drastic. Last night when I did the water change I pulled out all the rocks, ornaments and plants (the tank is well planted) to check for signs of any decaying cucumber...or maybe even a dead fish (although it is kind of habit for me to do a quick head count in the morning to check everyone is alive and present.....I just wondered if I had missed someone when doing the usual checks). No sign of any dead or decaying anything but I used the siphon hose to give a reasonable clean up of the surface anyway. This morning all fish are alive. The tank looks quite clear front on but side on (with a bit of natural light behind it) it looks a little bit murky. The fish had their usual appetite but I fed them only dried worms and a small pinch of flake this morning. (I have been giving them blood worms and frozen/thawed brine shrimp...and also wondered if this was a contributing factor) I feed once a day....mornings. I have decided to cut out the blood worms and brine shrimp for a few days in this tank as I never had the trouble before with the dried foods (oh but they do love it!). It is possible I was giving them too much of those frozen foods. I had cut back to feeding every second day as it had been put to me i may be over feeding them. But the fish seemed to get extra snarly and lost condition so I went back to daily feeds. Right..... Now to give the tank a break and give it time to settle. If the cloudiness returns and causes distress I will assume I have some sort of bug in the gravel or filter or something...and perhaps will have to remove the fish completely and sterilise the flaming tank and start the long process of cycling from scratch (aghhhhh!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Hi Warren and thanks for your comments but I think you are confusing me with someone else. Oops :oops: , it appears I am. I was confusing you with the person who started the thread... I should learn to read!! 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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