dino Posted April 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Thanks Joe, your an inspiration I will follow you advice. Just one question about substrate, do I need to place some organic compost under the gravel? or will that make its way up and cloud the water. Almost ready to go, tank is empty. 1: Clean the tank. 2. Place heater 2. Compose the substrate. 3. Add wood and slate. 4. Add plants (I also hate anything artificial) plant keeping and growing is all a part of it, as you said! might also make some java sticks. 5. Slowly add water 6. Turn on the heater, reach temp of 24-26 7. Test water and make adjustments. 8. If all ok ADD FISH and wait and enjoy. :smln: Also I think I need to balance the tank, from an aesthetic point of view, I might introduce some bottom cleaning fish (any suggestions, bristlenose?). Lastly is there any other species I can introduce to the tank? cricketman suggested, bristlenose's with a potential bonus of them breeding. That would be so cool. Does anyone have any experience of breeding two pairs of fish in the tank with one being a cichlid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Yep that sounds good :thup: Nah you don't need to add compost. In fact I've never heard of this idea but it would probably be way too rich and cause lots of problems. For a breeding tank you really don't want to complicate things. Just use JBL Clay Balls under the plants, and you can use liquid fertilisers like Seachem's Flourish line. Also remember that when the fish breed you will have lots of growing fry which will add a lot of ammonia and nutrients into the water through their poo. So you don't really need a nutitious substrate, just a few JBL balls if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nudge Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 I'm assuming you know about cycling your tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 If you use a filter that has already been running on another tank, or you have some seeded media from somebody else's filter, or you put heaps of plants in straight from the start, you don't need to bother cycling your tank. I have never cycled a tank in my life and all my fish are happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 If you use a filter that has already been running on another tank, or you have some seeded media from somebody else's filter, or you put heaps of plants in straight from the start, you don't need to bother cycling your tank. I have never cycled a tank in my life and all my fish are happy. maaaaate... You were going so well... You are ALWAYS going to have a cycle when you (not a definitive list!): Add more fish Clean filter Disturb substrate These cycles can be tiny or massive depending on the event, but they will happen, whether you test for their presence or not. Mature media will HELP the bacteria start to colonize faster than if you none. You will still have a cycle, as the numbers of bacteria develop to cope with the bio-load. The solution: WATER CHANGES! YAAAAAY!!! :happy1: There are hundreds of "potions" out there that claim to do all sorts of magic to ammonia, metals blah blah, but the simplest and easiest is just water changes... Established plants allow you to get rid of nitrates and some ammonia, and will help out-compete micro-algae but they are no replacement for W/C's... :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino Posted April 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 I was just reading up on cycling the tank. From what I gather I need to cultivating a bacteria colony i.e. nitrifying bacteria, This bacteria breaks down Ammonia, from fish waste and converts it to the various nitrates (NO2) and (NO3). What method do you guys use. Fishless (introduction of shop ammonia, and monitoring) or with fish. I do not have access to an established aquarium. I do have hundreds of goldfish in my pond. Thanks for looking after me guys, Dino. (ps i have just found some HAGEN Amrid and AQUA plus with P.H.E water conditioner, are these any good?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirt Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Hi Two different bacteria turn ammonia into nitrites and then to nitrates. What method to use? Depends. Fish less cycling is the more fish friendly version of cycling. But some people use fish so the correct amount of bacteria is formed. Pros and cons to both methods but I like the fish less method. Maybe someone on the forum that is local to you can offer you some? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 I do not have access to an established aquarium. I do have hundreds of goldfish in my pond. Good enough. Grab some gravel from the pond to seed your aquarium filter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Or contact the local fish club. Someone will be happy to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirt Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Good enough. Grab some gravel from the pond to seed your aquarium filter Would it not die going from cold water to tropical? Thought the change in temperature would kill them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 I'm not aware that they are different bugs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Goldfish generally carry and can handle a lot of parasites so I would never use them or media from their environment to cycle an aquarium. As stated earlier,with fish, fishless or put your filter in another tank or swap used for new media with someone. All personal preference. I prefer to heavily plant a tank then add fish slowly and give the system time to adjust. All work if done properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 I'm not aware that they are different bugs... Everything you may want to know, just ignore the plugs for their product There are several types that fit various niches, though they are all VERY closely related. I have to say that I am NOT a fan of the "fishless cycle"... There is alot to be said for patience in stocking your tank, main one being that, while you will have to stock slowly, at least you can have stock from the get-go, and is MUCH more simple than having to worry about measurements and tests constantly. Finding 100% pure ammonia is a bear too... Even if a product is marketed as "pure ammonia" or whatever, there is potential for anything to be in there... :evil: unless you can acccess reagent or lab grade product? Even in the fishless cycle, your going to be doing the same amount of water changes. Maybe it just me, but if I'm going to be putting in the effort, I'd like to have something to show for it... :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino Posted April 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Thanks guys, This article is clear and concise (there are a lot out there) http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/biologicalcycle/a/nitrogencycle.htm it follows Alans line of thinking. There are some great charts ammonia monitoring and action: http://freshaquarium.about.com/library/begin/xcolorammoniachart.htm nitrite monitoring and action: http://freshaquarium.about.com/library/begin/ncolornitritechart.htm Introduction of maybe fish like guppies will have an added bonus of fry care logistics. Also I can establishing a plant waterscape, prior to the introduction of more exotic fish. Lastly my son will learn a bit of graph theory! and undertake this as a school project. Can I add bristlenoses at a early stage? great article cricketman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Anyone will tell you that plecostomus species are POO MACHINES! Being that they are benthic, they also tend to do a number on you newly developing plants, bulldozing them up when they swim through... defo good to have, clean up a lot of leftover food, but I'd wait till you're tank is abit more mature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Most sites don't recommend using feeder goldfish because of disease susceptibility. But here we are talking of taking material from a healthy pond and putting into an empty tank. Any obligate parasites won't survive even if they are there. So, I'm interested in what particular disease you think might be introduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Most sites don't recommend using feeder goldfish because of disease susceptibility. But here we are talking of taking material from a healthy pond and putting into an empty tank. Any obligate parasites won't survive even if they are there. So, I'm interested in what particular disease you think might be introduced. Does it matter exactly what might? The risk, knowing goldfish to be major vectors, simply wouldn't be worth it. IMO Much better would be to take media from another local. Even then, If he keeps up the W/C's, he can get away without media-swapping anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 I took driftwood, plants, sand and a sponge filter from my healthy goldfish tank to start up my angel fish tank. Had no problems. Although goldfish might be a vector, doesn't mean they will be. So, if we know what possible disease might be carried across, we can then better manage the risks. I did this because I acquired some angels without a cycled tank to put them into. Gotta stop using that buy now button on trade me! :slfg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Mainly skin and gill flukes I would be worried about. Guppies can be dickie at the best of times. I would use danios or similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Good enough. Grab some gravel from the pond to seed your aquarium filter an outdoors pond may look healthy but microscopically speaking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 I'd assume the risk is the same as taking from another tank to start a new tank. Except the pond is so much bigger that your average aquarium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Goldfish generally carry a lot of flukes but they can handle them if the water conditions are OK and they are generally healthy. It is common for people breeding goldfish to treat the fry for flukes because they cannot handle them. This is so of tropicals as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 As they are obligate parasites I would have thought they would not survive the proposed fishless cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 If you take media or gravel or whatever to get enough bugs it would not be a fishless cycle. You would add a few fish straight off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 But if you don't have enough bugs and you don't add fish, then it's considered a fishless cycle the essence of which is the addition of an external ammonia source ( commonly bottled, but also fish food ). Cycling with fish uses fish to create the ammonia. Cycling with plants (the method you prefer ), is sometimes called a silent cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.