fishy-fish Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Hey all, I have a bit of an ethical delemna. About 8 months ago I purchased a complete african set up - a 6ft tank + about 40 fish. Amoungst the fish were a breeding pair of red top ice blues along with 4-5 juvenilles, or so I thought. As they grew, there shape and colouring wasn't right and became obvious to me that these were hybrid fish. They adult pair did eventually breed and there offspring are fantastic and only confirmed that these other fish were not red tops as I now have 20 beautiful 8cm plus specimans to compare them too. The "hybrid" red tops are almost reaching full adult size and are starting to show signs of breeding which I certainly don't want. Plus they are getting territorial and upseting the tank harmony. I have offered them to local fish keepers for free but no one wants them. So here in lies my dilemna. Is it ethical to euthanize these fish? :dunno: I know this is a tricky question to answer for some. I just don't see another option. :tears: Any thoughts/opions totally welcomed. :cofn: Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 yeah i think it is certainly ethical to off them if that's what you want to do. I would say don't give them to others as there is a good chance they will let them breed and then money can be gained by selling which can cloud peoples decisions on what is best to do in that situation. I am a purest when it comes to africans but i don't see hybrids themselves as the problem, it is us who decide to sell on dodgy fish. there is no reason why you cannot keep them, if they get to the stage where they aren't working with the setup then you need to make a choice. if it was me, i would off them over giving them to someone else but that is up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy-fish Posted January 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Thanks for the feedback smidey. I too value preserving pure species lines (as best as poss) so I have reluctantly decided to euthanise these fish. RIP hyrbids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuri08 Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I personaly don't believe in culling off hybrids that's how cichlids evolved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nudge Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'm with smidey on this one, evolution or not. We have such a small amount of species to choose from, and a lot of what we do have compared to other countries is questionable in purity. We are lucky there are a few breeders around who do their best to breed good quality fish from a market that has a saturation of cross bred fish, it is pretty hard to garuntee the purity of zebras for example. I have nothing against hybrids themselves if you plan to hold onto them, on the other hand i disagree with fish being bred in multiple species tanks and then on sold as a pure fish and given a scientific name. You can never garuntee 100% that the fish is what you say it is if it has been bred in a tank where there are chances of crossbreeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Let's keep lines pure! That's why some people's fish lines are good compared to others. Due to hybrids we have lost some pure fish eg; rainbow melonachromis, quality electric yellows, some great looking peacocks. Keep the evaluation to nature and not to our tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstar99 Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Let's keep lines pure! That's why some people's fish lines are good compared to others. Due to hybrids we have lost some pure fish eg; rainbow melonachromis, quality electric yellows, some great looking peacocks. Keep the evaluation to nature and not to our tanks. exactly. Cichlids in the wild didnt have limited mates as they do in some tank situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I would either keep them our bounce them.. If you keep them then you can't keep them with any other zebras because they will cross breed (should be doing most your breeding in species tanks anyway so that wont be an issue). Best way to get rid of them is to take them outside and smash them into the concrete as hard as possible it just kills them instantly. If your not that brutal then you can use clove oil etc. I have in the past given hybrid fish produced in mixed tanks to people, but you do have to be very selective who you give them to because most of the time they end up back in the mix being sold again and people cross them with pure lines and muck everything. End of the day you can do what you like with the ones you have and it wont make any difference, only takes a 5min browse on trademe or walking into any store to identify everyone breeding hybrids and giving them pure names, happens everywhere and is particularly bad in NZ. I personaly don't believe in culling off hybrids that's how cichlids evolved I really get sick of this attitude, yes it is how cichlids evolved! But think you should leave it to nature until you have millions of years and you can replicate the environmental conditions and circumstances that brought species together and decided which way they evolved. Lets just enjoy what limited pure fish we do have in the country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuri08 Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Yea I agree with you all but I'd rather just keep the fish instead of a living being that you created be wasted just because its not pure if its a nice fish to look at then i reckon keep them.like i said just my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 :digH: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 If you have hybrids in your tank then either you need to keep them yourself and don't let them breed, or you cull them. The problem has always been that if you pass hybrids on you rely on the honesty of the person you give or sell them to in that they won't breed them and sell their progeny as pure bred fish. That is why there are some dreadful looking fish seen for sale. So I guess fishy fish, if you don't want to keep them in a hybrids tank and no one you know wants them, then in the interests of having only pure, quality cichlids in NZ you are best to cull them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuri08 Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Yea I agree with that fully Adrienne there's no use in giving them to people if they might breed them and further downgrade the market even more. But is fine to keep for show etc.trust me I like pure fish as much as anyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropheus Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Cull!!!. We need to keep species as pure as we can. Its bad enough seeing the crap thats on TM ie Aulonocara. Majority of sellers cant even supply their own photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zdoda Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 As i was telling ryan tonight, hybrids are a great burely , when i first started off with cichlids and found hybrids, i would grow them up and use them as fishing burely . :spop: Agree with all of the above, cull them. or send them my way and i can use it on our next fishing trip :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy-fish Posted January 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 5 fish bit the pavement. Not a nice thing to do. &c:ry My only consolation is that I inherited these fish in a purchase, rather than breeding them from careless fish keeping. It does make me more aware of the need for single species tanks, especially for zebra species. I am half way through a weekend project, building a 200L tank. Not sure what it's going to house, but I think it will be single species for sure. Thanks everybody for sharing your two cents :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy-fish Posted January 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I am half way through a weekend project, building a 200L tank. Not sure what it's going to house, but I think it will be single species for sure. Here's the thread for the 200L project if you're interested http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=56997 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new zealand discus man Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Shame as i see it the fault is the parents were not true in the first place and remember imports are mostly not named true as erma made maf have 2 latin names for each type of fish..Those that have come in are here small as you cant tell alike...Also under false names and all mixed up while in quarantine......As cant keep seperate in small batches or would look strange. My views as i to have had many supplied and do not look anythink like photos of so call parents..IE red peacocks just common sunshine when adult..Just one type mentioned as i have had many like this so stopped buying them in............P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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