zeebee Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 After much researching I decided I would try out fishless cycling in my new aqua one 980t 240L. Have just used cloudy ammonia from countdown. Asked a man working there if it contains anything but water and ammonia. He advised no. Still not convinced so have emailed countdown and am waiting for reply. If it turns out it has additives I will cross that bridge then... Day 1 started adding ammonia until 4ppm. nitrites 0ppm. nitrates 0ppm. ph 8.2 Kept adding ammonia daily to keep at 4ppm. Day 5 tested for Nitrites.. 5ppm. Ammonia 3ppm. Day 6 ammonia 3ppm, nitrites off the chart. Day 7 ammonia 1ppm, nitrites off the chart Day 8 ammonia 1ppm, nitrites off the chart Day 9 ammonia 1ppm nitrites still off the chart. tested for nitrates.. 5ppm Seems to be going ok so far. Just gotta have patience.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Why do you think it is cloudy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebee Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm guessing that it may have additives????? If I do 100% water change after it has cycled will that get rid of any additives? Also put activated carbon in?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodKing Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I've used the cloudy ammonia and it works a treat. Cloudiness is likely bacteria on such a new tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstar99 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Cloudy ammonia has some detergents (surfactant) i believe. (If you shake it it bubbles). Clear ammonia doesnt contain detergents and doesnt bubble. In saying this i have used cloudy ammonia before and it worked. I imagine what small amount of detergents are in there will be hugely diluted in the tank water. I finally found some clear ammonia at bin inn. It is potent (25%) but thats what i use now. I cycle slightly different to you though. I does to between 2-4 ppm then test daily til ammonia reads zero. Dont test nitrites, pointless at this stage. once ammonia is zero for a day or so add the original amount of ammonia (that got you to 2-4ppm) every couple of days until the nitrite is zero. This usually takes twice as long as the ammonia. I usually combine this with daily 25% water changes as well but to be honest have not found it to make a significant amount of difference in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 What's the point of the daily water change? My understanding is that you do a 75% ( or was it 100% ) water change once the tank is cycled. And then put the fish in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstar99 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Some say that it help to bring the nitrites down faster but like i said i have not noticed a hell of a lot of difference. Huge water changes early on in the bio cycle can cause large but usually brief spikes in your ammonia or nitrites. As long as your perimeters are right ie zero ammonia, nitrites and say 20 nitrates i guess it doesnt matter how much water you change before your fish go in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 What's the point of the daily water change? My understanding is that you do a 75% ( or was it 100% ) water change once the tank is cycled. And then put the fish in. If you do a large water change >50% use a dechlorinator as the chlorine in tap water can and will kill the new bacteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Some say that it help to bring the nitrites down faster but like i said i have not noticed a hell of a lot of difference. Huge water changes early on in the bio cycle can cause large but usually brief spikes in your ammonia or nitrites. As long as your perimeters are right ie zero ammonia, nitrites and say 20 nitrates i guess it doesnt matter how much water you change before your fish go in. Since you want to encourage the growth of the bacteria that do the nitrite to nitrate conversion, I can't see how this would work. The idea of the 100% water change is to remove any contaminants in the original priming solution you used... AFAIR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstar99 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 so you are saying if you use cloudy ammonia you would do a 100% water changes to remove the surfactants? what other contaminants would there be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 The point of cycling your tank is to create the population of bacteria on the filters and other surfaces in your system. Once that happens, you can then replace most of that water with clean aged or dechlorinated water that you know is contaminants free. I guess you can't replace all of it as you will then starve the bacteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebee Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Ive got rainwater so dont need to worry about bacteria dying from chlorine. Im sure the 100% water change will do and run the filter for an hour then add some danios to see if water is safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstar99 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 your nitrites should be zero when fully cycled. if you arent fully cycled id just add a few fish at a time until you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstar99 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 oh i found some more reading material for you ZEEBEE if you were interested :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Why not just add a couple of danios and not use the added ammonia along with all the other contaminants. Worked for grandad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Why not just add a couple of danios and not use the added ammonia along with all the other contaminants. Worked for grandad. because that was the ye-olden-days, and we have better ways of doing things now :digH: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Surfactants and god knows what else is a better way---I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 you could use some blotting paper ( do they still make such stuff ??), or a paper towel, to remove any residual surfactants. Since oil and water are not miscible the surfactants will rise to the surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Surfactants come in many different flavours, only one of which are the oils. I don't know what type of surfactants are used in cloudy ammonia so I don't know if your theory would work or not. I am simple minded obviously as I cannot see why someone would want to add surfactants and probably detergents (and whatever else) to an aquarium. A fish produces exactly the waste that the bacteria you want will feed on and at the correct concentrations so why not just introduce your fish slowly and show a little patience. When I was breeding thousands of fish and when I imported goldfish I never added anything to the water other than fish and never had a problem. I never tested the water either but I did heaps of water changes until everything stabilized. Everyone to their own I guess. I am also dumfounded as to why so many people put teatree oil( MELAFIX) into their tanks.I think we are being blinded by "science" and have forgotten what we are trying to achieve. I suppose it keeps a few people in spending money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 i prefer to set up tank add just a few fish and do regular water changes to cycle a tank to some fish keeping is an over complicated science to others it satisfies the mad scientist within them to add magic potions to their brew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I never tested the water either but I did heaps of water changes until everything stabilized. So, if you never did any testing how did you know when the system was stable? AFAIK, the point of a fishless cycle ( apart from sparing the fish any trauma ) is to create a large population of bacteria so that it can handle all of your fish at once ie. no need to add them slowly. The method claims to induce much larger populations than that achieved using dead shrimp or a sacrificial fish. And if you have an existing tank with live filter material then you can even bypass most of these steps by using that in your new tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 You change the water often enough to know that the fish are not showing signs of stress. In the good old days (maf have now changed the rules) the trick was to pick the first signs of any trouble with the fish and treat before it got worse. You are correct with your assumption about fishless cycling and the same applies to cycling with fish. I have not met anyone who can tell me how much ammonia is equivalent to waste from the first lot of fish they add so how does that avoid stress? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 When I started to keep fish a few months ago, and had my first one die on me, at that time I had 5 goldfish in a 50L tank. At this point the LFS told me about water changes ... :facepalm: Ammonia at that point was still less than 4ppm but the fishless cycle as described is supposed to handle 4ppm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 i prefer to set up tank add just a few fish and do regular water changes to cycle a tank to some fish keeping is an over complicated science to others it satisfies the mad scientist within them to add magic potions to their brew You can do it the natural way without using a live fish. Just add some urine until the ammonia is 4 ppm ( or whatever the target you want is reached ). Guaranteed to be sterile ( if you're healthy ), and free of surfactants. And of course you are recycling body fluids :slfg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Graham, that has been suggested on here before if I unforget correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.