More common common names please!

[Joshlikesfish]

Because when you run a business, any extra time devoted to anything at all = increase in costs.

Taking a few minutes to decide if you have a tank full of SAE or flying foxes is hardly a cost.

[kiwiplymouth]

From the Fair Trading Act, part 1 section 9

Misleading and deceptive conduct generally

No person shall, in trade, engage in conduct that is misleading or deceptive or is likely to mislead or deceive

[David R]

^ so going by that is it the LFS job, or the wholesalers job? Or the exporters job?

How many interesting things have slipped through accidentally by being misidentified? Maybe we shouldn't be complaining at all?

[kiwiplymouth]

I feel that it is ultimately the retailers responsibly and if there is any doubt over an ID that could mislead or deceive the customer then the customer should be made aware, just like when suspected Rio Ucayali could not be 100% identified and they were sold as "spotted bristlenose" instead.

[mr pleco]

I feel that it is ultimately the retailers responsibly and if there is any doubt over an ID that could mislead or deceive the customer then the customer should be made aware, just like when suspected Rio Ucayali could not be 100% identified and they were sold as "spotted bristlenose" instead.

well thats a lovely thought kiwi only problem is if you bred them and wanted to sell them to a shop as a shop owner i wouldnt buy any as i could not gaurantee what their correct name was so you would miss out as would many other potential customers as if the responsibility fell on the shops they simply wouldnt stock any if there were doubts of its origin or proper name the hobby would lose out in the end because shops would put the omnus back on importers and importers would stop buying fish aswell you cant exactly fly to asia or germany every week to eyeball yr stock before you buy and trying to return them is near impossible

question how do you think a retailer would go selling a plec thats "a possible Rio Ucayali , but could be a spotted bristlenose but helll really we dont know what it is on the label " cost is somewhere between 19.95 and 49.95 depending on what you think ?>

really ???

[hovmoller]

This talk of responsibility of which species exactly a LFS is selling is slightly beside the point of this thread.

No, we can never demand that a LFS should get their species right 100% of the time and take responsibility for it as well.

What I'm talking about here is when you go into a LFS and ask: "Those Black Line Flying Fox there... what are they, Flying Fox or Siamese Algae Eater?" The staff then (very confidently) says "it's the Siamese Algae Eater".

I that case.. Why deliberately sell the fish under a name that can only lead to much confusion? just because their supplier called them that.

BTW the Siamese Algae Eater (Crossocheilus siamensis) IS on the allow import list, so we can rule out any trickery caused by that.

[phoenix44]

Actually when you buy Siamese Algae eater off the wholesale list you don't always get what you pay for. Makes it even more confusing when you get to choose between flying fox, true flying fox and siamese algae eater. I've even seen true Siamese algae eater on there a couple of times, so it is confusing as hell - especially as you can only know what you have once they are in store . You will occasionally get a mix of species in the same bag too so I wouldn't jump on the wagon and place all liability on the store.

I still think people should research what they buy before they actually go and get it.

[hovmoller]

I still think people should research what they buy before they actually go and get it.

So in this case the person would have to go to the shop, take a picture of the fish, then go home and somehow work out that what the shop sells is in fact not a Flying Fox but a Siamese Algae Eater?

I'm saying that when the shop is confident of what they have, they should sell it as that and not some pseudo made up common name like "Black Line Flying Fox". Have you googled that name btw? it will certainly lead you in the wrong direction of which fish it really is.

[hovmoller]

I would actually like to hear from a LFS what their take on this is? (if they dare)

I know we have heard from HFF that they use the name that they bought it as from their supplier. And we have heard from someone at HFF Albany that they thought Sterbai Cory and Golden Leopards are two different species.

But seriously if you can commit to saying when selling them that those fish are actually Siamese Algae Eaters and Sterbai Cory, then why can you not label them as that when you know that is what most people call them? and that the other names might mislead people if they actually tried to do some research on the fish they are buying.

[suphew]

I would actually like to hear from a LFS what their take on this is? (if they dare)

At least two of your responders so far are the fish guys from LFS's

[GZ_Loach]

SAE and FF look different, one isn't as bold as the other

[suphew]

But seriously if you can commit to saying when selling them that those fish are actually Siamese Algae Eaters and Sterbai Cory, then why can you not label them as that when you know that is what most people call them? and that the other names might mislead people if they actually tried to do some research on the fish they are buying.

Firstly because no matter what they are labeled someone will alway be confused and someone else will always think they know a "better" common name. By using the importers listed name, the LFS can get rid of annoying guys that "know more" by falling back on the importers list and suggesting if they have an issue with the name they can go take it up with the importer.

And secondly because although you think SAE or Sterbai might be the better common name with-in your circle of fish keepers it's just as likely that amongst another group of fish keepers somewhere else in the country or world it's something completely different. There is no winning if you try to use "correct common names"

[hovmoller]

And secondly because although you think SAE or Sterbai might be the better common name with-in your circle of fish keepers it's just as likely that amongst another group of fish keepers somewhere else in the country or world it's something completely different. There is no winning if you try to use "correct common names"

Exactly! and that is why I suggested earlier that this thread was doomed from the start.. and yes it is very much a case of "You should all name your fish what I want them to be named" :slfg:

Just thought these names were sooo obviously wrong that more people would agree that they are wrong.

I don't see anything wrong with discussing one common name by itself and having a debate as to how wrong or right it is... I think common names should be what the majority of people would like to call something.

[Joshlikesfish]

At least two of your responders so far are the fish guys from LFS's

I would hardly call Animates a "LFS". They have to follow animates policy and cant freely do what they want in terms of naming.

I still think people should research what they buy before they actually go and get it.

So you're saying there is 4 species now? I don't recall reading that when reading articles on the differences between SAE and FF.

Care to explain the difference between the four?

[suphew]

I feel that it is ultimately the retailers responsibly and if there is any doubt over an ID that could mislead or deceive the customer then the customer should be made aware, just like when suspected Rio Ucayali could not be 100% identified and they were sold as "spotted bristlenose" instead.

We seem to live in the generation of "it's some one else's responsibility". It's going in your tank, it's going to be your problem if you buy the wrong fish, why shouldn't it be your responsibility to have reasonable idea what your buying? Sure if the LFS deliberately misleads you "no that Oscar will be fine in that 20l tank with some goldfish" then thats one thing, but using an less common name, come on.

Take a step back and look at the whole pet shop, what you are saying is that either the LFS should only let you buy fish from the one person they have working there that knows everything there is to know about every type of fish and can 100% positively identify and sex every one, ditto the cats section, dog, bird, and small animal.

Or that every staff member in the shop should know everything about every single animal and product thats in there? A big ask when the average retail wage is properly $15 an hour.

Or maybe they should have a big disclaimer up on the door stating they can't confirm the type, breed, sex, or age, of any live stock in store and that staff have been instructed to not risk misleading customers by identifying any animal of any type. :nilly:

[suphew]

So you're saying there is 4 species now? I don't recall reading that when reading articles on the differences between SAE and FF.

Care to explain the difference between the four?

Pretty sure you'll find there are more than just 4 similar fish that are common in NZ. I don't have time to check again now, but was looking them up on wikifish recently and I'm sure there were 5 types, and that didn't include the obviously different ones like the "Golden Algae eater"

[Joshlikesfish]

Pretty sure you'll find there are more than just 4 similar fish that are common in NZ. I don't have time to check again now, but was looking them up on wikifish recently and I'm sure there were 5 types, and that didn't include the obviously different ones like the "Golden Algae eater"

And is it a major ask for the retailer to know the difference?

Seeing as P44 is a retailer who claims to have seen four types, he may be able to expand everyone's knowledge when it comes to SAE/FF. I asked my local animates and nobody had heard of a SAE, but were certain the FF would eat black beard

[kiwiplymouth]

We seem to live in the generation of "it's some one else's responsibility......"

Ahh well, new time you purchase a product or service that doesn't meet the retailers or manufacturers claims and they didn't "deliberately mislead you" we wont hear you complaining or asking for a refund will we :roll:

[Joshlikesfish]

Ahh well, new time you purchase a product or service that doesn't meet the retailers or manufacturers claims and they didn't "deliberately mislead you" we wont hear you complaining or asking for a refund will we :roll:

:lol:

[DJPaulyPlec]

Stop whining,

DJ P out

[Sophia]

I bought a fish that wasn't what it was labelled as but when I realised I said to myself that was good, I got it cheaper than the one that was labelled correctly. Also I liked it anyway. If I didn't I would have taken it back and I'm pretty sure they would have given a refund or swap.

The supply chain doesn't start with the shop unless for some unlikely reason they are also the breeder. The problem starts when the wholesaler/importer doesn't provide the correct latin name with the product they are selling. It can then be up to the store to label them under as many different common and not so common names as they please.

Shouldda-wouldda-couldda etc etc etc :yaw2:

:spop:

[phoenix44]

No, those are just the 4 different names under which the 2 - 3 species of fish are sold interchangeably.

Don't know exactly how you misunderstood what I said.

[Joshlikesfish]

No, those are just the 4 different names under which the 2 - 3 species of fish are sold interchangeably.

Don't know exactly how you misunderstood what I said.

Whats the 3rd one then?

Also, if you get to pick between multiple names, how come I have only ever seen "Black line flying fox" in my local animates? By chance do they only takes ones called "Black line flying fox" from the list?

[phoenix44]

I'd imagine one would only order what sounds familiar to them. I cannot speculate.

___

Epalzeorhynchus Kalopterus

Crossocheilus Siamensis

Garra taeniata

[Joshlikesfish]

I'd imagine one would only order what sounds familiar to them. I cannot speculate.

Do you stock them under the appropriate names?