THE INDUSTRY BEHIND THE HOBBY.

[reef]

On another Matter the draft of the new standard is out for submissions,

I would encourage people to take part, we need 100s of submissions.

http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/biosec/consult/draft-ihs-fisornic.all-15-11-2010

Basically MAF is trying to close down the hobby, they are subjecting importers with lots on increased cost.

As per the allowable list you will see that some fish have to be tested, if many die, it can cost thousands , so expect prices to go up by over 10%.

So far some MAF cost have increased by 100%, really great in a recession.

Should have a new forum to discuss this.

The hobby has not caused any major problems compared to Ships that release ballast water when they enter NZ.

Due to the industry being small MAF can take advantage of it and add many conditions when fish are imported. overseas they are also having changes however NZ has the one of the longest quarantine period already in the world which add additional dollars to the Hobby.

Its time to take action.

[oscnz]

I just read over some of the stuff on the website and I know the mods are not going to like me but what a bunch of idiots

[reef]

I found this in an overseas article, however lots of old news.

New Zealand has recently published legislation relating to the import of ornamental aquatic organisms. Interestingly enough, ‘Importing Ornamental Fish and Marine Invertebrates from all Countries’ (www.biosecurity.govt.nz/imports/animals/ standards/fisornic.all.htm#d) takes a different approach to most equivalent documents published elsewhere.

It doesn’t, for instance, list banned or restricted species. Instead, it includes a long – a very long! – list of all the freshwater, marines and invertebrates whose import into the country is permitted, in short, a Positive List. Therefore if a species is on the list, it can be imported; if it’s not, then it can’t be imported. Sounds simple, doesn’t it?

However, on reading through the list one discovers that goldfish (Carassius auratus) and koi (Cyprinus carpio) are NOT on it, indicating that their import is banned. Other notable absentees include most coldwater fish along with a host of species we tend to refer to as ‘coldwater tropicals’, ie. tropical species that can withstand low, or relatively low, water temperatures.

Species like the paradise fish (Macropodus opercularis) and its relatives belonging to the genera Pseudosphromenus and Parosphromenus are also excluded, except for one species of the latter (the Liquorice gourami, P. deissneri), although all 19 species in this genus have basically the same requirements and tolerances. Also excluded are the White Cloud Mountain minnow (Tanichthys albonubes), and the medaka or rice fish (Oryzias latipes) and its relatives.

Also notable is the absence of all the goodeids. However, whether this is because they are deemed as potentially ‘noxious’, or because the authorities are not really aware that modest quantities are traded in many countries is not made clear. Stocks of the butterfly goodeid or ameca (Ameca splendens) are easily obtained throughout Europe and the US. Significantly, the new regulations make no mention of freshwater invertebrates such as decorative shrimps, snails, etc. And for this article I’ve only concentrated on the freshwater list.

New Zealand used to have a list of prohibited species, but it was deemed too confusing. Yet this Positive List suffers from an inherent weakness in that by not including new species as they come on stream, it bans their import simply by omission. The consequence is that by erring to such an extent on the side of caution, new species are almost regarded as guilty until proved innocent as to whether they pose a potential or real threat to New Zealand’s native fish fauna. There is also the complication of the law (apparently) being interpreted differently on the North and South Islands.

All this comes on top of New Zealand’s strict quarantine laws which require freshwater fish to be quarantined for six weeks, and marine fish and invertebrates for three. No doubt, we’ll be hearing much more of this complicated situation as the law is implemented on a day-to-day basis at ports of entry over the coming month.

[alanmin4304]

Having an approved list ties in with the phylosophy of banning any new organisms. There probably is a non published banned list and these would be best left from any application.

[reef]

FNZAS we need a new forum for this, Called , THE INDUSTRY BEHIND THE HOBBY.

Need to discuss the issues.

Searching the net shows its happening all over the world.

To All Owners, Managers and Staff in the Pet Industry.

Instructions

Please print out at least 1 copy of my Attachment labeled (TO ALL PET SHOP OWNERS, MANAGERS AND STAFF). Read it and let your staff read it. It would be helpful if you give a copy to all your staff to take home.

Please print out at least 2 copies of my Attachment ( Biosecurity Draft 1) put 1 copy on front door and 1 copy on your counter for your customers to read.

Those of you who are members of PIAA may already be aware that Federal Labor MP Tony Burke’s Department of Biosecurity Australia is a few weeks away from crippling or destroying the aquarium sector of the pet industry.

Biosecurity Australia recently issued a report which, if implemented, would result in a drastic reduction in imported fish and substantially increase the costs of importing all other species. (fish prices will double or more – can you and your customers afford this?)

This issue has potentially serious implications for the industry. Of particular concern is the large numbers of fish that are needed testing – in most cases it is nearly 50% of each batch of fish imported.

That means for eg 100 discus are imported, 45 are frozen for sampling ( remember - the importer has paid for these fish) and the importer is charged a $250.00 fee for every type of fish tested. So if there are 4 types of fish to be sample its $1000 and hundreds of fish that WERE healthy will be destroyed.

PM Julia Gillard and Minister Tony Burke’s Department of Biosecurity Australia have the Australian Aquarium Industry cornered, with no way out. Our only chance is to force them to change their minds through fear of loosing votes in the upcoming election. If the Julia Gillard is returned as PM without giving the Pet Industry a written undertaking, stating that they won’t bring the new regulations in, you can expect an increase in the price of fish and lines of fish eg Oscars to disappear as early as November.

ALL of the smaller importers of fish will most likely to close down soon after the regulation come in.

Some people in the Pet Industry will tell you that Australian breeders produce the fish for you to buy and sell. Australian fish breeders will never be able to supply today’s markets needs, they will never have the fish variety we have today, the supply of your fish will be very patchy and the prices will be higher than they are today. It WILL take 1 to 5 years for Australian breeders to produces reasonable numbers and variety of fish for you to sale. Your income will be affected heavily for the next 1 to 5 years ----- are you, your family and your bank manager prepare for this.

The fish targeted are all Livebearers, all Siamese Fighting Fish, all Cichlids, all Gouramis. Within 12 months of

the importing of these fish grinding to a holt, Goldfish and Tetras will be targeted, soon after that all Marine fish imports will be targeted and imports will stop.

If you are in any doubt about this information, read the submissions being sent in to the Department of Biosecurity from other government departments offering support and telling them they have not gone far enough with the new regulations.

http://www.daff.gov.au/ba/ira/current-a ... ubmissions

Also please read the email I have sent to

[email protected],[email protected],[email protected], [email protected]

A petition is being organized for in store collection, I will send information through to you about it. I would strongly recommend you participate in this -- before it is too late.

[reef]

MODS can we have a forum for this? have its own section.

I think we all need to know what is going on .

[alanmin4304]

It seems to me that the whole import thing is geared to the protection of the fishing hobby in NZ rather than the fish keeping or native fish protection hobbies. Everthing is geared to economics and the accountants are running the place so the fish keeper has no clout while people can quote how much the country makes from fishing. The big worry seems to be the intoduction of diseases that could kill trout and salmon. Natives and exotics don't count.

[livingart]

Basically MAF is trying to close down the hobby,

i don't read that into it

an emotive statement that i can understand though as you as an importer will have more compliance issues and costs

costs that will have to be passed on and the hobbyist will end up paying

[reef]

i don't read that into it

yea sure, that is why every year we have less importers.

So how do you pass on a potential $2000 plus fee for testing fish? In fact one import got charged $4000 in test, so no longer imports Freshwater fish.

[David R]

IMO....

It seems ridiculous to be targeting the hobby. What are their concerns based on? Since the current system [of having an 'allowed list'] came into place, or even in the entire fish keeping history in NZ, how many cases do we have confirmed of tropical species acclimatising and establishing themselves to the detriment of natives species, and how many cases do we have of imported fish introducing new diseases? To me it seems like wanky bureaucrats with very little real-world knowledge on the subject trying to make themselves appear productive and make their jobs appear necessary.

Reef I agree we need hundreds of people making submissions, the problem is that many people haven't got the first idea about what to include in that submission. I think it would be a good idea for someone such as yourself with a good knowledge of the industry, the laws and the proposed changes to write a template for a submission that people can copy/paste and submit, or modify if they feel inclined. Luckily, at the moment we have a government that is keen on encouraging business and reducing bureaucracy, so hopefully we can pitch our submissions to appeal to that logic.

[livingart]

yea sure, that is why every year we have less importers.

So how do you pass on a potential $2000 plus fee for testing fish? In fact one import got charged $4000 in test, so no longer imports Freshwater fish.

there a few different reasons why we have less importers

a country this size with a relatively small population base will only support so many importers any how

[reef]

will only support so many importers any how

really, i was told we need more competition.

[livingart]

really, i was told we need more competition.

[malevolentsparkle]

Species like the paradise fish (Macropodus opercularis) and its relatives belonging to the genera Pseudosphromenus and Parosphromenus are also excluded, except for one species of the latter (the Liquorice gourami, P. deissneri), although all 19 species in this genus have basically the same requirements and tolerances. Also excluded are the White Cloud Mountain minnow (Tanichthys albonubes), and the medaka or rice fish (Oryzias latipes) and its relatives.

paradise fish, and White Cloud Mountain minnow at least are here and very common how can they not be on the list!

[phoenix44]

Cold water fish, not on list.

Barbs are most likely to be taken off next. There was talk of it a few years ago.

[reef]

fish keeping history in NZ, how many cases do we have confirmed of tropical species acclimatising and establishing themselves to the detriment of natives species, and how many cases do we have of imported fish introducing new diseases? To me it seems like wanky bureaucrats with very little real-world knowledge on the subject trying to make themselves appear productive and make their jobs appear necessary.

Exactly 100%. i have asked MAF many times to show me a case where in recent years disease have been spread by imported fish . They can't.

Nz does not import many fish so the risk is far reduced.

[reef]

Something i read and we should use it,

The ornamental fish industry caters for people of all

socio-economic status, allowing everyone affordable pets. Research shown that pet fish

holds a special place, as do a pet dogs or a pet birds, with reducing stress and fostering

interaction between owners, their animals and the society. The socio-economic

ramifications of such a ban will be so wide-ranging that it would be difficult to

enumerate.

[alanmin4304]

They are entitled to test fish and they are entitled to recover their costs. That is part of the cost of importing. At least marines are only 3 weeks rather than 6 weeks (which can be extended if problems are found). Serious diseases have been found in imported fish in the past and recently. This is why goldfish imports were stopped. Guppies, mollies and koi have been proven to establish and reproduce in NZ. People will not be greatful for cheap fish if they can contract TB from them.

[reef]

Serious diseases have been found in imported fish in the past and recently

When? Found and released is two different things?

What outbreak? ZERO.

We have one of the longest quarantine periods in the world which helps.

Freshwater is going to be 4 weeks,

[Rabbit]

They are entitled to test fish and they are entitled to recover their costs. That is part of the cost of importing. At least marines are only 3 weeks rather than 6 weeks (which can be extended if problems are found). Serious diseases have been found in imported fish in the past and recently. This is why goldfish imports were stopped. Guppies, mollies and koi have been proven to establish and reproduce in NZ. People will not be greatful for cheap fish if they can contract TB from them.

I thought the reasoning behind the ban on goldfish was the possibility of feral populations not disease? TB is not restricted to any one species, hence the reasoning behind imported bred stock. Not to mention vet certification on export. Im yet to know of an outbreak?

[reef]

Goldfish will be able to be imported soon, however will have many conditions.

[malevolentsparkle]

Goldfish will be able to be imported soon, however will have many conditions.

that seems crazy given that paradise fish are not on the list. sure they can survive in cooler water but breeding is very unlikely. if any do live in the wild it would be in small pools or ditches where no native fish could survive anyway. goldfish on the other hand...

[alanmin4304]

There have been a number of people down here that have contracted piscene TB from imported fish and it is not a pleasant disease. Piscene TB was identified in goldfish that I imported (probably one of the last shipments into NZ) Aeromonus bacteria are frequently isolated from imported fish and is one of the diseases that had goldfish in such a poor state when I imported them. It was the same bacteria that caused an outbreak of hospitalised people after swimming in a badly maintained spa pool at one of the pubs down here. Pople were not happy that the bacteria was causing rot to set in to their armpits and groin. There have been shipments down here held up after diseases were identified and one recent one almost resulted in the whole shipment being destoyed.

Quarantine of imported fish is esential if we are to avoid nasties being introduced and it costs so please get used to it.

[alanmin4304]

There has been talk of allowing goldfish to be imported again since they were banned but I have not seen it happen yet. Don't hold your breath.

[reef]

There has been talk of allowing goldfish to be imported again since they were banned but I have not seen it happen yet. Don't hold your breath.

I have already advise you that they will be able to be imported , However very few if any importers will be interested.

Carassius auratus, is this goldfish

http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/biosec/consult/draft-ihs-fisornic.all-15-11-2010

here have been a number of people down here that have contracted piscene TB from imported fish and it is not a pleasant disease.

I suggest more education has to go into hygiene.

I handle more fish than any hobbyist and have never been sick or contracted any disease. that is proof.

No system is perfect other than banning all fish.

If it is a major concern for anyone then by not having fish they would avoid this and hopefully not get run over by a car instead.

No one is suggesting that there should be no quarantine, however i don't think you understand the impact of having to pay extra to get fish tested. Especially if you get a over jealous MAF officer.

It will make a big impact on fish prices, especially marine. fish are under priced already to keep them reasonable.

A importer will have to allow most likely put a minimum of $1000 a month to be put aside for testing, even if they don't have to test , it would be good business practice to allow for future test

On top of that the extra procedures has already increased some importers fees by 100% a month.

FACTS is that there has been no outbreak of disease in recent times that has been the result of imported fish

It was the same bacteria that caused an outbreak of hospitalised people after swimming in a badly maintained spa pool at one of the pubs down here.

Maybe we should ban all swimming pools.