Insect Direct Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 yeah well i thought it worked like that too but it does not seem to be the case with these frogs which is why these frogs are going to be researched in depth in good time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I have mated four trios of your ”Guaranteed Splits” resulting in over 10,000 tadpoles from the frogs purchased from you. I have not had a single colored tadpole…. I also know of one other person who had some of your “Guaranteed Splits”!!!!! Who is also, yet to breed a colored tadpole. wondered why you had signed on and only posted in this thread :roll: ` To date all known Albino and Lutino mutations in amphibians and reptiles is `SIMPLE RESESSIVE`, there is nothing complex about these mutations to those who have been for a doing it a long time… i have been doing it a long time and like ID i have found these particular frogs confusing as to genetic makeup they have been appearing in the wild in nz in one location for around 15 years that i know of if they were a simple recessive gene i would have expected them to have been in good numbers by now but their occurrence in the wild has been sporadic with them disappearing for a few years then popping up again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobtale Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 wondered why you had signed on and only posted in this thread :roll: ` i have been doing it a long time and like ID i have found these particular frogs confusing as to genetic makeup they have been appearing in the wild in nz in one location for around 15 years that i know of if they were a simple recessive gene i would have expected them to have been in good numbers by now but their occurrence in the wild has been sporadic with them disappearing for a few years then popping up again There is nothing complex about this mutation.... If records are kept ..... Lutino Bell frogs have accured in two locations in NZ, Auckland and Dargiville Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 if that is right then they have occured in 3 locations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 The genetics are not simple because I have spawned albino to albino and had virtually no viable eggs (one hatched and lasted a week is all). There is also a skew in sex ratios which suggests the albino gene could be sex linked. This linkage may be different from each of the "three" colonies. They seem (in my case) reluctant to breed. Plenty of croaking but not spawning. I set mine up on the advice of the original breeder but no success this season. It is now a bit shaky to worry about it too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 in regards to viability. out of split over albino, most spawns were fertile, some only partial and a few with no viable eggs. the biggest problem here is tadpoles developing (splits were similar but nothing at all compared to the extent the albinos get) scoliosis (bent backs etc). of all albino tadpoles produced less than 3% have made it to the frog stage looking normal. i do have one male that looks to be the full quid, once a bit bigger will spawn back to original albinos. will also spawn over split and see what that produces, may get some females? Also have access to a young female frog that appears to be of another line, was wild caught and is not so vibrant yellow. so call it simple genetics or what ever anyone wants, but they are proving to be a challenge here. it will no doubt take some time to produce any number of quality frogs but not all is lost it is just going to take time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 knobtale - the point is the frogs probably should produce albinos in a simple world, but they are not and i never guaranteed they would. i dont know why they do what they do, just know what they do is what they do. you dont have to understand it, not sure anyone does just yet, but it is the way it is. if people are reasonable, give me time, and everything goes well (breeding wise). when possible i plan to offer an albino to each person who purchased 'splits' as a gesture of good will. may take some time, may not, will do so asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobtale Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 The genetics are not simple because I have spawned albino to albino and had virtually no viable eggs (one hatched and lasted a week is all). There is also a skew in sex ratios which suggests the albino gene could be sex linked. This linkage may be different from each of the "three" colonies. They seem (in my case) reluctant to breed. Plenty of croaking but not spawning. I set mine up on the advice of the original breeder but no success this season. It is now a bit shaky to worry about it too much. In regards to this comment: The inability to produce offspring from this mating is purely environmental . I would suggest that perhaps the sex ration difference that you mentioned could also relate to temperature during inqubation as this is known to affect some amphibians and reptiles….. If this was a sex linked mutation ( which it is not) then you would only breed females as the males would be `Heterozygous` known as `split` for the mutation. However even this mating if this was a sex linked mutation would still produce one in four …. SEXLINKED INHERTANCE Normal /split INO X Normal Female = 25 % INO Females 25% Normal Females 25 % Normal Males 25 % Normal /INO Males This is a percentage out of approximately 100 animals , not necessarily from the same pair but from the mathematical genetic equation . In my case I produced over 10,000 tadpoles from four separate mating’s , of these supposed splits . To date I have not produced any colored tadpoles. Until you have produced large numbers of progeny to back up what you are saying , then one is flying in the dark. I have over 25 Years of breeding both bird and reptile mutations in four countries , in a professional capacity ….. So you will understand my disappointment in relation to this matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 yes that is what sex linked trait should produce and recessive x normal should give 100% Split to recessive offspring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted February 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 if they were tsd then the splits should all be male too..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted May 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 "Estradiol has not only a critical impact on reproductive and sexual functioning, but also affects other organs, including the bones" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estradiol wonder if that is why the albinos are so derformed ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted June 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 interesting read. page 3 onwards in particular. http://www.exploratorium.edu/frogs/researcher/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 its that Roundup again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nznatives Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Can anyone pm me on how to get golden bell frogs to mate and also how to tell females from males (im guessing its with males that the throat is larger for croaking but not quite sure) also any ideas for setting up a tank to breed Help would be appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 males: generally slimmer. get to about 8cm yellow-greyish colour to throat when in season. males thumbs go solid black / nuptial pads swell and blacken. is for grasping females. females: more plump, up to about 11cm. pure white throat in season or may be just depending on mood? nts: need to check that. best to get a large group of frogs (at least 6-8frogs, 5 males to 3 females works well). not impossible to breed with just a couple but they seem to like competition to spur them on. is a we bit to the breeding side of it, 'just add water and wish for the best :facepalm: bed time for me :nilly: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nznatives Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Thanks alot if i were to go out and catch them would i just look for these characteristics and take only wat u said or is there a better way of doing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 probably not a good idea to just go out and catch adults from the wild. get some tadpoles, grow them on, that way in 6month to a year when they breed you will appreciate it more or keep an eye on trademe, there's often frogs / unwanted pets on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nznatives Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 yeah i think i will get the tadpoles but have never had much luk with them or maybe it was cause i was to young and foolish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 well well well, some one has produced albinos from split to split. however these albinos started off as tadpoles with dark eyes some crazy shiz going on with these frogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 There was someone selling a leucistic green and gold litoria on trademe a while ago---sure that is not what these are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted October 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 short answer: not 100% sure sorry. when young they looked like leucistic to me. as they developed the dark pigment (appears to be above/around eye) has lessoned. I haven't actually seen the morphs yet (hope to in the next few days), but person raising them reckons the two that have morphed are red eyed, and last week when i saw them they looked like very much like red eyed tadpoles. Bar one little sickly looking one that still appeared to have dark eyes. was about 25% of the spawn too. what ever they are it's an interesting result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 someone is having more luck than most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason22 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Mine spawn last friday, a few have hatched but looks like there is a lot infertile, and can't see much colour yet. fingers crossed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuri08 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 those albinos are awesome i really want acouple where can i get some do you reckon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 frog genetics are a hit and miss affair which is dependant on whether it is a recessive or sex-linked trait and carried on the male or female side also to be taken into consideration is how the mutation expresses itself in the 3 types of alleles they have in their skin factor in environment and temperature and you have some pretty low chances of putting the right pair together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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