Pennywort varieties

[Ice222]

I just what to know, what types of pennywort we have available, in New Zealand, and would also like some help IDing some different types of pennywort:

1st type is small, bright green plant. Leaves are less than a cm in diameter and seems to stay fairly low in the tank 1 leaf per stem.

2nd type is a little bigger, a slightly lighter green, leaves a bit bigger than the 1st type. (Can't describe much more cause I only saw this one in Animates and don't have it myself).

3rd type is deep green with leave 5cm+ in diameter, lots of roots, stems 20+cm long, was sold to me as Hydrocotyle verticillata.

From what I could find, I'd venture to guess that the 1st is H. Verticillata, 2nd is H. Leucocephala, and the last one is H. Ranunculoides, but could someone confirm it for me? I would also like to know how big the 2nd type of pennywort listed here is expected to get, both in terms of leaf diameter and stem length. I suppose it would differ depending whether it is used as a floating plant or potted?

[alanmin4304]

The only ones I am aware of in NZ are verticillata and leucocephala. Animates down here sell cardamine lyrata which looks similar. It is called vertiillata because it grows vertically along the media rather than up to the light like leucocephala or Cardamine lyrata. I have heard them all called silver dollar. There are a lot of different types in your lawn but they are the ones grown in aquaria that I am aware of.

[Ice222]

Thanks. I think the 2nd plant, the one that I saw at Animates, was most likely Cardamine lyrata then. Although plant no.1, the one which I guess is verticillata, was also from Animates. The two I saw were definitely different plants though.

Oh yea and I just thought I'd add that the 3rd plant, the large one, also smell quite fragrant like a herb, in case if that helps with the ID.

[Zev]

Pics of what Alan describes here - http://www.fnzas.org.nz/index.php?PG=plant

The best way to tell is how the leaves are incised at the base for the Hydrocotyle

[Ice222]

Even with pictures I find the H. Leucocephala and Cardamine Lyrata, but that's not a big worry as they sound like pretty similar plants. Still confused about my large plant though, it basically looks like the Verticillata pictured in the FNZA plant ID page linked, but much much bigger. The leaves are the same shape too.

[alanmin4304]

They can vary a lot depending on growing conditions. I have seen verticillata minute growing submersed and shaded by other plants and as big as a breakfast plate grown emersed in ideal conditions.

[Ice222]

Well if this overgrown monster of a pennywort is is H. Verticillata, what would I have to do to get it grow back into submersed form? I have small tanks they're so big that they won't even fit in my tank, I have them outside in a barrel of water atm. Even the new growth on the big plants are bigger than the adult leaves on my own H. Verticillata that I got from a different source.

[Rob]

I'm always (and still am) confused about what gets sold as cardamine here (at least in the North Island). Shops call it cardamine (just as a common name) but from what I've seen it's always Hydrocotyle leucocephala.

Also the pics for the two plants (cardamine vs H. leucocephala) on http://www.fnzas.org.nz/index.php?PG=plant look the same to me, same flower form, same leaf shape etc - surely that means one of them is mislabeled (or I need my eyes checked).

The cardamine pic doesn't match up with the pic in my plant book (for leaf shape, which shows them not as a full kidney shape but more shell? like) - but then leaf form can be vastly different depending on growing conditions. I guess more tellingly the flower isn't the form I'd expect (as a member of the brassica family (Brassicaceae) I'd expect the cardamine flower to be vaguely reminiscent of cabbage flowers as shown here). Hydrocotyle is a member of the Apiaceae (also called Umbelliferae) family and the flower on the FNZAS pic of cardamine looks to have a little umbel of flowers to me.

Can someone clear this up for me - do we really have Cardamine lyrata in NZ (stashed away in the South Island perhaps) or is it all H. leucocephala?

[A-town...]

there is also hydrocotyle sibthorpioides around 8) its very tiny leaf and very light demanding

[Zev]

Looks like a mission for the Plant Committee, Rob.

I will pass on your query - well they can see it here for themselves, but a prod will not go amiss, I am sure

[phoenix44]

Lyrata is not terribly common here, although I can't rule out the possibility that at one stage it may have been here.

It isn't something that can just be ordered as is off some plant wholesalers, but that is relying solely on their ID of the plant, which you cant always trust seeing as L. glandulosa comes in as R. macrandra.

[alanmin4304]

I have had C. lyrata in the past from John Peters who sells on Trademe as waterplantz. I used it for a while for newts to lay their eggs on. I have verticillata grown emersed and a little of leucocephala submersed and even less emersed. A bit cold for emersed tropicals at the moment.

[Sophia]

HFF Mt Roskill have (or had) some huge stuff - leaves look the same as my verticilata (the kind that doesn't seem to get taller than 10-15cm before the top leaf starts to get grubby) but leaves are the size of an old 50c piece or bigger and the stems are 20+cm long. WHen I was there it didn't have a label but I thought it was hydrocotyle.

[Ice222]

Okay here are pictures!

My pennywort from Animates Aqua fun day (Wish I'd bought more then!). Small with leaves less than 1cm in Diameter.

The pennywort I bought recently, the pic is already only the smaller leaves that I thought might sorta fin in my aquarium. Most of the leaves are over 6cm diameter, some reaching about 12cm!

Also found what looks like bloodworms in the larger pennywort, had them dumped outside in a bin of water and found about 30 as I was sorting the plants a bit just now. How safe are they to feed to my fish? Suppose the main risk is parasites? Anyway to make them safe for fish consumption?

[alanmin4304]

Feed the bloodworms as is. Might have to do some work on the cardamine issue.

[FuglyDragon]

Hydrocotyle all have a strong herb like smell if you crush the stems, Cardamine dosnt and the leaf shape is different.

[alanmin4304]

Mike, do you think cardamine is in the country?

[Sophia]

My pennywort from Animates Aqua fun day (Wish I'd bought more then!)

the local one to you has more of it, saw some this morning

[Ice222]

I just went to Mt Eden Animate today. Pretty sure it wasn't verticillata. The one I bought at aqua fun day definitely looked different.

[FuglyDragon]

I have never seen Cardimine here, havent really looked hard for it though, me being a South American nut Hydrocoytle (Brasilian Pennywort) appealed more.

[supasi]

I have never seen Cardimine here, havent really looked hard for it though, me being a South African nut Hydrocoytle (Brasilian Pennywort) appealed more.

I assume you mean South American Mike?LOL

I have never seen Cardamine either. All the ones I have are Hydrocotyle.

[FuglyDragon]

Yeah sorry a but stressed yesterday, earth moving under you not a nice feeling