djsurfs Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 P.S. I should add that I had several problems trying to rescue kuda at different times, and did lose 2 despite my efforts as other complications & just too far gone. But I did save my 1 SH using just the Diamox. and it took 5 days of treatment in the bath, so get extra pills! P.P.S. the live rock in hospital is OK only with the Diamox. If you do need to treat for infection with antibiotics, be prepared to remove the LR and have lots of saltwater on hand for numerous waterchanges to keep ammonia levels down. P.P.P.S. For obtaining the Diamox I found that printing out the Gas Bubble Disease article in the library, and going to the vets personally, helped my cause greatly. (though I did have to go to 5! ) persistence pays... --> http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/GBD.shtml That is all I can say to help. I am no expert! again, the emergency forum on SH.org may be of help... Good luck, I hope your SH pulls through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 well done DJ you have just increased all our knowledge base Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahorsecrazy Posted January 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Thank you DJ. I am trying my hardest to source some diamox. My local vets have heard of it, but do not stock it. I am off to the chemist today to talk to the pharmacist who happens to like seahorses. I may get a breakthru there - or else go to my doctor and try there. He is still hanging in there. He has managed to stay at the bottom of the tank for the whole of yesterday. The swelling has increased, but only a small amount. I hope I can help him. It's been a horribly stressful week so I would like to have something good come of it. I certainly hope I dont have to go thru one like this again. Even my Hubby has started smoking with the stresses, (he stopped cold turkey in October), me, I just have to turn to cake I suppose... I do appreciate everyones input though. Great to see a community can help each other and most have never even met. Well done everyone. :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsurfs Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Hey Seahorsecrazy, too bad my internet was down all morning before trip to town... BUT anyhow, I had a dig through all my SH stuff and found I have a stash of Diamox! equivalent of 9 pills in total. (some are broken) another BUT: they were obtained 26/11/2007. so I don't know if they are too old to use now.... If you would like to use them, PM me your address ASAP. as I am heading out of town tomorrow morning and could post them while going thru... Remember generic name is Acetazolamide. my vet had them on hand because they can be used for dogs with certain conditions, and it is actually a "people med" used to treat glaucoma among other things, so the chemist should have them if your Dr. can write you a script. You ARE going on a high altitude mountain trek soon and will need them to help prevent altitude sickness, RIGHT? P.S. my Big Bouy Potbelly was easy to pouch evac (with bobbypin) in comparison to my little kuda who was verrrrrrry difficult. It didn't seem like the air was really in his pouch either, kinda like yours... so ya might want to give another go tilting upside-down if it doesn't stress him too much. just in case. Because that SH was smaller & tense the bobby pin was not working so I used a soft plastic catheter sleeve (like a mini straw) which did help get some air (not all) out and the diamox helped him the rest of the way back to normal bouyancy. If your boy is still in the main tank it may still be beneficial to lower temperature and add an extra air line with big bubbles. Sorry. I been there & know how it is... try not to stress out too much. OK? so, your hubby has the smokes, you got the cake.... I think I'll have a vodka! teehee :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahorsecrazy Posted January 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Thanks DJ, I have just picked up 5 diamox tabs from the chemist. I had to get a script from the vets, who couldnt give me a script without seeing the patient. luckily I had my camera in my bag and showed it to her. No problem there. Then, I had the same sort of thing at the chemist, but once I showed them the photos of the babies, they werent all that interested in my man, so the script went thru without a hitch. I was going to put him in a small 35 litre tank on his own, but i cant keep the temp down on that one. The chiller is in my big tank. Unless I have a heap of frozen saltwater to add every couple of hours, I dont know how practical that would be. My big tank is too big to dose in that ratio, so I may have to pirate the chiller off my big tank. Not too keen on that. Anyhow, I will come up with a solution shortly and act on it, or it may be too late. Thank you so much for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsurfs Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Hey, does that small tank happen to be an Aquaone AR380?... I had/have small thermo/elect chillers rigged for mine... been ages since used... not sure if still working... trying to pack for outta town tomoorrow... lemme know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 You could freeze up a few fizz bottles or small milk bottles and sit these in the tank instead of adding frozen salt water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsurfs Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 I did a QUIck chekc and the little chilly seems to be working still.... though it doesn't cope well with super hot weather, just keeps the water a few degrees below ambient air. so still good to keep tank in coolest location possible & have icebottles handy. before I had the chilly, like Zev said , frozen bottles can do the trick when in a pinch. I found having lot's of extras in the freezer is good cuz it seems they melt faster than they freeze... and if you can still fill the bottles with saltwater it helps too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Not sure if this would work...but could you float a closed container/med bath with him in it (with something in it for him to grip onto) in the cool tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahorsecrazy Posted January 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Great suggestions guys. Yes, DJ it is a Jebo R 388. Dont think much different from 380. I have several drink bottles with frozen seawater in them adn I have been adding them to the water (filter) which runs from the top of the tank. Have given my man his first dose into his tank and he doesnt seem to be worried at all. Still sitting attached to the plastic plant at the bottom of the tank where I put him earlier this afternoon. I offered him a bit of food, but he wasnt interested. I honestly think he wont be able to fit anything in his stomach. All I can do is continue with the treatment I have now started and hope that I have got it in time. DJ, I will PM you about the offer for the chiller. Once again, thanks for the suggestions. I am willing to try anything at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahorsecrazy Posted January 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 I am on day 3 of the dosing with diamox. My man is still alive and looking rather peeved off. I am changing the water each evening and replacing the diamox. He is still very bloated and refusing to eat, but hanging in there. We can only wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsurfs Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 Hey, how is the little guy going? I sent the chiller on my way out of town friday morning.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahorsecrazy Posted January 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 Thanks DJ. Expect chiller to arrive Monday. Good timing as I will not be able to monitor his water too well from work. Really appreciate your help there. So far so good. He started to show a little interest in things happening around him today, but only briefly. Doesnt seem to have 'gone down' in his gut so far, but certainly a little brighter. Actually watched one or two mysis float past his face tonight - but not ready to eat yet. He even seemed to turn to the TV this afternoon and avoid any eye contact with me - must of liked The Simpsons :lol: He is on tablet number 4, and gone thru about 80 litres of water so far. Been changing about 20 litres each evening before adding more medicine. So far been chilling him with mizone bottles filled with frozen salt water. Hubby suggested chilly paks from the freezer, but I am not sure what is in them and whether they are toxic, so left them alone. His girlfriend is missing him, and keeps dancing at the front of the tank each time she sees anyone moving in the lounge - needs company. He is also in the lounge but on the other side and next to the cockatiel who really doesnt appreciate the new neighbour. We are all waiting to see when he will deflate. How long did it take for your guys to start 'going down'? Did you notice any difference straight away or does it take a little more time? I know I have another 48 hours to go before his number 5 tablet is used up, so maybe Im just a little anxious... Stay posted for updates... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 I really really do hope that your hard work and dedication pays off. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahorsecrazy Posted January 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 Thank you, we are still trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsurfs Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 sorry i did not dig that stuff out and send quicker, and not able to explain better as was out of town... I would not use those chemi/ice/blue whatevers either, for fear of leaking. Even freshwater frozen bottles are better than that; if they leak it is no biggy, not enough to change salinity drastically. probably some fresh topoff with this heat wouldn't hurt anyhow as fan pointed at the tank does help too but speeds evap. My guy took 5 days to get normal bouyancy back. The Diamox unfortunately does tend to suppress appetite. there is some dispute as to how long to go before needing tube/force feeding. on the SH org they say 3 days no food and systems start to shut down & unable to restart digest. I'm sure my SH's have gone longer before resorting to that, but I have also successfully tube fed. I would say if he has not eaten Anything for 5 days, tube feeding needs to be started. Have you seen any poop in the hospital? purple poop is good, it means he has eaten. no or white stringy poo is not good/border starvation. If the swelling doesn't go down by day 5, it could be an infection causing the gas. I don't really know, it is beyond my comfort-zone/knowledge advising on antibiotics... ( though i have used them) I am not good at wording stuff like the folks on the seahorse.org! You mentioned lots of water changes. Is that because no bacterial filtration/LR in hosp? The Diamox loses it's "whatever" magic after some time in saltwater, so adding the new dose without prev WC will not OD him. But by all means change water 1st if you are concerned about ammo/nitr. good on you for trying. sorry if it's for nought. but there still is hope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahorsecrazy Posted January 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 The chiller has arived. I will get home shortly and set it up fo him. He is starting to look a bit brighter, but there is no sign of poo. It will try and tempt him again with food this afternoon, but if no luck then I will try to tube feed him. Water changes are quite critical at the moment, the small tank only has 12 dozen 'noodles' and a piece of LR. Better to be safe than sorry with the changes. We are only 30min from our water supply, and there is always a good excuse to travel to Whakatane/ Ohope (KFC, Pizza Hut, McD, Hunting and Fishing Shop...) so no great problem on supply of water. I will post another photo tonight to get a better idea of the swelling to date. Once again, thank you so much for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsurfs Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 gahhh, I thought i posted last nite... but it vanished ( iprob 4got to hit button :roll: ) anyhow... No worries! just payin it forward, passin around, wateva... there's a great bunch on here, aye! OK, I meant to ask last nite, have you touched his tail or whatever/made him let go of hitch to see how well he can swim and whether he bobs up & can't get back down or can swim well or seems to sink? how does his bouyancy look? once normal bouy'y has returned, quit the diamox so he will get appetite back ( hopefully) even try some live food to entice if you can get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahorsecrazy Posted January 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 :oops: Sorry, I have not been able to get a clear photo of my lad to post up. I will get there soon - I promise :oops: He has finished his course of 5 diamox. He is still bloated and his bouyancy is not quite right, but I have introduced him back into the tank with his mate. Hopefully she will tempt him into eating again. He seems a little more comfortable in his tank again, but is not swimming around nor feeding just yet. It has been nearly 8 days since he has last eaten, and he is a little weaker. I have been holding him upright and trying to tempt him with food, and he did 'pop' a couple of times when I held mysis in front of him, but I was not really sure if he was trying to get the food, or just get me off him. I will try again in the morning. He is certainly a strong willed person. I think anyone with less determination would have given up by now and gone to the mysis-filled-happy-hunting-ground-for-seahorses days ago. I am able to get more diamox if I think he may need a repeat dose. But I would like to try him for a couple of dys back in his tank and see if he improves with the help we have given him. I hope I am making the right decisions, unfortunately all this is trial and error. Heres hoping for some good news in the morning. Good night all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsurfs Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 I wish I was closer to have a look/help out... it is hard to visualise what is going on, even with still shots Is he not sitting/floating upright because his bottom half is too bouyant or is it because his upper body is sinking and heavy & he just seems too weak? Is it possible the upper body "bloating" is infection/edema and not actually air? Have you felt it? hardlumps or squishy/moveable? I am having trouble "seeing him" on his side if there is no air in his pouch, and wonder is his top half heavy. what happens when he is unhitched? fall on side? sink? bob to surface? sorry for all the Q's! just tryin to help I'd offer live food if possible and if he doesn't eat, immediately start hand feeding (tube assist or gently forced) and keep him in hospital to observe output (poo! lol) and also isolate in case of infection or need for further medication, be it more diamox or antibiotics. That's what I'd do, But totally understand if all that is in the "too hard basket" and you need/ want to go an alternative route. Best wishes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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