Stocking tool! check this out

[yhbae]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, also things like substrate, rocks, heaters etc. They all add up to a fair amount.

That's true. But since everyone has different amount of them, I'm not sure what is the best way to handle this.

[kiwiplymouth]

It appears that most of the warnings are caused by the presence of Copadichromis Borleyi and SAEs in your mbuna tank. I would think those are not a great mix... Are they getting along ok?

The SAE's aren't a problem.

The Borleyi and Kenyi are still young and peaceful. I plan to remove them as they mature leaving it a dem/e.yellow tank again

[Brennos]

I did look at some of those all-in-one setup and hit into a problem. Not really related to all-in-one issue but in general, all tanks marked in litres appear to over-quote their volume by a good margin. I could not figure out the actual dimension of the tank and often, if you use their dimension, the volume comes out 15-20% lower than the manufacturer quoted numbers. If I knew what numbers to use, I'm sure I can find a way to implement it.

I too had an overstocked tank and kept them healthy for years. My bristlenose plecos even bread in that tank. Lots of water changes but it certainly is feasible.

Yeah, I do about 1/3 water change weekly. I usually skim about 5 liters off the top of the water every 3 days too, as it seems to get a film. I am upgrading my stock trickle filter this week, hopefully tomorrow. So my tank should be a better place once that has cycled.

[Floater]

I usually skim about 5 liters off the top of the water every 3 days too, as it seems to get a film. I am upgrading my stock trickle filter this week, hopefully tomorrow. So my tank should be a better place once that has cycled.

As soon as you get a filter that creates a bit of surface agitation you will find that film will not occur.

Actually it does assume it is filled to the brim just to make the calculation simpler. If you really want to take that into account, you can make your height of the tank a bit lower to match your water level.

Yeah that's what I've done, and I guess the user could further reduce the height of their tank dimensions to take gravel depth and other things that displace the water into account. But then again it's probably not even worth taking these variables into account as the tool is only there to give an estimate.

[Snowman]

More listings for filtration would be good, i run 2 x Eheim 2217 Canisters & 2 x Eheim 2212 Aquaballs on my big tank but can only list 1 of each.

[Floater]

More listings for filtration would be good, i run 2 x Eheim 2217 Canisters & 2 x Eheim 2212 Aquaballs on my big tank but can only list 1 of each.

Click the "add filter" button.

Aquarium Equipments & Supplies: [Add a filter] [Remove a filter] | [Display in inch] [Display in Gallon]

[Caryl]

Well I found the pearl gouramis, added my fish (as many as I could count anyway, I missed some) and it informs me I should be doing a 76% water change weekly split into 2, 51% and my stocking level is 202%.

Having run this tank for a number of years now with no problems whatsoever, despite it only getting a water change once every 3 months or so and the filter has been cleaned twice in 2 years so far, I am not sure what to think :-?

It also tells me my temperature requirements are not fully compatible. Since all my species are happy between 22 - 25C I am not sure which ones are not fully compatible.

I was warned the pearls could get too aggressive when breeding. When they were building bubble nests I did not see any aggression anywhere. I have ancistrus and odessas breeding in there too so something must be OK :roll:

[spoon]

i think its a good guide but what some people tend to get away with is amazing atm i have a tank with 1 figure8 puffer, a small (atm ) fire eel ,6 brown haps(small) a couple baby convicts and about 30 peacock fry and an adult peacock i was too scared to type this into the stocking tool by the way filter is fluval 104 with a small internal filter and an airstone whilst im getting away with it at the moment its not permanent as i know im gunna have problems down the track like monbsterous fire eel eating everything but at the moment even the peacock fry which are 1cm long stripped last week are not being eaten

[phoenix44]

So I take that you didn't agree with the report? Could you post what and how many of each you have, dimension of your tank, and what was the expected stocking level?

Also, if there are missing species, please let me know as well. Scientific names will help.

Thanks.

hey,

first I must say you have a great attitude to deal with constructive criticism, and need to be commended for that. If you were in NZ I would even buy you a beer to show how genuine that is, however i do not drink beer as it tastes ghastly, so you would have to drink it all alone, and that's depressing...but that is another story. :lol:

The calculator needs to account for the size of the fish, the food they are being fed (what goes in comes out), the filtration - but more importantly the media - take me for example.

2x fluval 405s and 1 eheim 2028 with more than 3L of eheim substrat pro media means 450sqm of surface area per Litre of media. that's place for the bacteria to live - and that's a lot of good bacteria in the tank in a tank that probably holds less that 200L of water after accounting for all the volume that the plants, substrate and items in the tank account for.

The same amount of filtration would be near useless without any media.

perhaps the algorithm of the calculator could include a data input variable where users could choose to enter the size of the fish in question.

eg. a 4cm royal panaque will not produce as much waste as a 12" + royal, and is ok in a smaller tank, but needs a larger tank as it grows.

the calculator also does not account for plants in the tank. more plants of the right sort = lower nitrates, and a more stable environment.

It would be near impossible to account for all the variables and make everyone happy, but you are on the right track.

[lmsmith]

Note: Bristlenose Pleco needs driftwood.

Warning: Bumblebee Goby requires brackish water.

Suggestion: Minimum recommend male to female ratio for Guppy is 1:2 (M:F). You will less likely to experience problem if you get even more females.

Warning: Your selected species will eventually require 295% of your aquarium space. You may need to deal with territorial aggressions later on. Try removing some of (Ancistrus sp., Corydoras aeneus, Hypancistrus sp. L270, Brachygobius xanthozona, Mikrogeophagus ramirezi) or get a larger aquarium tank.

Recommended temperature range: 27 - 27 C. [Display in Farenheit]

Warning: Water pH requirements are not fully compatible between all selected species.

5.5, 7.6: Bristlenose Pleco

5.5, 7.6: Bronze Cory

5.5, 7.6: Chocolate Zebra Pleco L270

5.5, 7.6: Bumblebee Goby

5.5, 7.6: German Blue Ram

5.5, 7.6: Guppy

5.5, 7.6: Cardinal Tetra

5.5, 7.6: Neon Tetra

Recommended hardness range: 5 - 12 dH.

Warning: You NEED to add more aquarium filtration capacity!!!

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 14%. [What's this?]

Your tank is too small - it will require massive amount of frequent water changes!

Your aquarium stocking level is 771%. [Generate Image] [What's this?]

You should consider a larger tank for this combination.

Okay, so a lot of my BN and guppies are babies, but I think an estimate of 771% stocking level is a bit high. I only top up the tank (it's a heavily planted tank), no water changes, don't clean the filters until the flow is reduced and feed heavily only once a week. In saying that, I know I get away with a lot that maybe shouldn't work in practicality.

[yhbae]

More listings for filtration would be good, i run 2 x Eheim 2217 Canisters & 2 x Eheim 2212 Aquaballs on my big tank but can only list 1 of each.

You can click on "Add a filter" to add more filters. In theory, you can have unlimited number of filters.

[yhbae]

Well I found the pearl gouramis, added my fish (as many as I could count anyway, I missed some) and it informs me I should be doing a 76% water change weekly split into 2, 51% and my stocking level is 202%.

Having run this tank for a number of years now with no problems whatsoever, despite it only getting a water change once every 3 months or so and the filter has been cleaned twice in 2 years so far, I am not sure what to think :-?

It also tells me my temperature requirements are not fully compatible. Since all my species are happy between 22 - 25C I am not sure which ones are not fully compatible.

I was warned the pearls could get too aggressive when breeding. When they were building bubble nests I did not see any aggression anywhere. I have ancistrus and odessas breeding in there too so something must be OK :roll:

What species do you have, and how many of each? What are the dimensions of your tank? This could be just a case of one or two species affecting the result.

Also keep in mind that this tool tends to be a bit on the conservative side to be safe for novice users too...

[yhbae]

i think its a good guide but what some people tend to get away with is amazing atm i have a tank with 1 figure8 puffer, a small (atm ) fire eel ,6 brown haps(small) a couple baby convicts and about 30 peacock fry and an adult peacock i was too scared to type this into the stocking tool by the way filter is fluval 104 with a small internal filter and an airstone whilst im getting away with it at the moment its not permanent as i know im gunna have problems down the track like monbsterous fire eel eating everything but at the moment even the peacock fry which are 1cm long stripped last week are not being eaten

I think if you know what you are doing, you can go very far away from the common advices and create very interesting but feasible mixes. Even right now I have a tank that I kept for 2 years that would be a disaster for this tool but I would not recommend this setup to any beginners...

[yhbae]

hey,

first I must say you have a great attitude to deal with constructive criticism, and need to be commended for that. If you were in NZ I would even buy you a beer to show how genuine that is, however i do not drink beer as it tastes ghastly, so you would have to drink it all alone, and that's depressing...but that is another story. :lol:

Oh I don't drink beer either (same reason as yours) so we can settle for another drink! I am few km away from you though, so that could be a problem...

The calculator needs to account for the size of the fish,

This has been brought up before and it is on my wishlist. Just that it is looong way down on my wishlist.

the food they are being fed (what goes in comes out),

Hmm this is going to be tougher. I'm not sure I am going to ask each user what type of food they feed and how often. May be how often is feasible.

Different species have different eating requirements. Perhaps I can assume the users got this "right"? Currently, AqAdvisor.com does feature what I call "bioload factor" where I can individually tune each species bioloads.

the filtration - but more importantly the media - take me for example.

2x fluval 405s and 1 eheim 2028 with more than 3L of eheim substrat pro media means 450sqm of surface area per Litre of media. that's place for the bacteria to live - and that's a lot of good bacteria in the tank in a tank that probably holds less that 200L of water after accounting for all the volume that the plants, substrate and items in the tank account for.

The same amount of filtration would be near useless without any media.

This has been brought up as well but again, I'm not sure how to implement it. I am assuming they will use whatever media that was packaged with the product. I do know what you mean though - I did research this topic a while back with a great deal of interest. I even thought about letting users select the type of media but I figured that path is kinda hopeless with so many different materials you can use in your filter if you go DIY. Lot of people are now asking for support for sumps too which means I will need to deal with this one way or the other. I am open to suggestions.

perhaps the algorithm of the calculator could include a data input variable where users could choose to enter the size of the fish in question.

eg. a 4cm royal panaque will not produce as much waste as a 12" + royal, and is ok in a smaller tank, but needs a larger tank as it grows.

Yup that is the idea. I will still need to know what would be the bioload for the younger ones though. I have a feeling that since younger ones are more active, 4cm young species will command more bioload than a 4cm fully grown up species if everything else being equal.

the calculator also does not account for plants in the tank. more plants of the right sort = lower nitrates, and a more stable environment.

This is now one of the most common request. I am a believer that plants do help in the tanks. The problem is that depending on who you talk to, you get two different answers. As an example, plants do absorb nitrates (I have a tank with zero nitrates because of plants), but some say plants don't absorb all toxins produced by fishes. Hence although they do remove some harmful chemicals, not all of them. Would this be true?

It would be near impossible to account for all the variables and make everyone happy, but you are on the right track.

Yeah, and I expect this to go on for a while.... Thanks for your feedback!

[yhbae]

Okay, so a lot of my BN and guppies are babies, but I think an estimate of 771% stocking level is a bit high. I only top up the tank (it's a heavily planted tank), no water changes, don't clean the filters until the flow is reduced and feed heavily only once a week. In saying that, I know I get away with a lot that maybe shouldn't work in practicality.

Ok, so your fishes are babies. The app doesn't account for sizes as the above post has pointed out. This may come out eventually as a new feature.

If all of your fishes in the tank is fully grown up, would you say that stocking level is reasonable? How many of BN and guppies do you currently have in that tank? And also tank dimension?

Thanks.

[lmsmith]

Ok, so your fishes are babies. The app doesn't account for sizes as the above post has pointed out. This may come out eventually as a new feature.

If all of your fishes in the tank is fully grown up, would you say that stocking level is reasonable? How many of BN and guppies do you currently have in that tank? And also tank dimension?

Thanks.

haha, I don't even think if they were fully grown they'd all fit in the tank, let alone thrive. I have over 100 BN and 50 guppies in a 3ft (900x400x400) tank. I think this is a really great application, probably less use for people like us who know a lot about our fish, but much more use for the average Joe.

[smidey]

this shows how difficult it is merging technology with a massive variable, there are so many combinations of fish, filtration, enviroment, opinions & experiences it must take years to get the programming right.

[yhbae]

haha, I don't even think if they were fully grown they'd all fit in the tank, let alone thrive. I have over 100 BN and 50 guppies in a 3ft (900x400x400) tank. I think this is a really great application, probably less use for people like us who know a lot about our fish, but much more use for the average Joe.

Ouch... No wonder you got that kind of stocking level...

[yhbae]

this shows how difficult it is merging technology with a massive variable, there are so many combinations of fish, filtration, enviroment, opinions & experiences it must take years to get the programming right.

Yeah I knew what I was getting myself into. And when I started this project, pretty much everyone around me was saying this is not feasible. But I went ahead anyways, knowing that this is still a finite problem. Here I am, about 1 year later, and I can still see I am a long way to go... lol.

[Caryl]

I just hope those who rely on this calculator also use common sense and do their research before they start :-?

[yhbae]

I just hope those who rely on this calculator also use common sense and do their research before they start :-?

100% agreed, and I also added this suggestion on the same screen. I do see people doing brain storming on possibilities but they do tend to post their stock ideas on the net. At times, they do turn out wrong, in which case, I also catch them and fix them.

[alanmin4304]

I think you are doing what many others try to do with religion. They are trying to prove something spiritual with science when realy you either believe it or you don't and it has little to do with science. There are so many variables in what you are trying to achieve that it will be very hard to find a formulae that works. Some fish are all mean (except the odd friendly one) and some are all friendly (apart from the odd mean one). You can have a very good aquarium with no filtration right through to heavy filtration and with different loadings as well. Too many variables for me.

[yhbae]

I think you are doing what many others try to do with religion. They are trying to prove something spiritual with science when realy you either believe it or you don't and it has little to do with science. There are so many variables in what you are trying to achieve that it will be very hard to find a formulae that works. Some fish are all mean (except the odd friendly one) and some are all friendly (apart from the odd mean one). You can have a very good aquarium with no filtration right through to heavy filtration and with different loadings as well. Too many variables for me.

I agree there are many variables. That's why approaching this "problem" using general formula will not work. You can think of this app as a code that looks up a database of a huge matrix. Say if I have 500 species in DB, I am maintaining 500x500 matrix (that's 25000 different cells!) where each cell holds reasons why those two species may or may not get along. And this can be any reason since I can manually state them.

In reality, it is not possible to manually go and update each cell because there are too many, hence I created many general rules, but also have things like grouping, good exception rules, bad exception rules, etc to help me fill this matrix more sensibly. In other words, if someone points out that these two species won't get along, then whatever the reason is, I can program it and show valid reasons. Same goes the other way, two species may defy common sense and manage to get along. I can code that into DB as well. And it is relatively simple to do this.

The app is not fully mature so it still requires me to update PHP code. But at some point, fine tuning of individual species behaviour will be a matter of updating DB content without needing to update PHP code.

Hopefully with another year or so of effort into this app, I am hoping it will start to show some maturity.

[Brennos]

I think this app is very good for some of us novice keeps, I have pointed a couple of novice mates to it, they have alot used it, to help with fish selection. Thanks for the great app, and keep up the good work.

[Morcs]

I think its good for the stocking capacity and filtration capacity.

There are no hard and fast rules with what can be kept with what, apart from the absolutely obvious.