Vinnie Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Ok, my 22L nz saltwater didn't last to long, I decided it was unfair on the fish and anemones in a small tank without a chiller and other bits so I put em back from where I got them not long after my last post on the 22L tank. I finally have what I need to make the chiller (some parts took forever to get) and have a 85L tank I can use now. My questions are: How many Liters per anemones is best? any fish to stay away from? 6x the water volume per hour enough for filtration and water movement (plus two small power heads) I am aiming to have everything setup and correct from the start on this one All help is much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 We set ours up as a rockpool so anything we found in rockpools we figured was fine for our tank (which was about 900mm x 300 x 300 from memory). We only worried about the fish so stuck to triplefins and rockfish. There were those little red anemones everywhere in it. It had an AquaClear (200 or 300) HOB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 How are you making your chiller? Rockpool critters deal with a lot more fluctuation and temperature changes, so are probably a lot more tolerant than other marine critters in an aquarium. (I officially ban myself from living near the sea - I really don't need to get into native marine! Good luck! Am envious ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Rockpool critters may deal with temperature changes but it is the long term heat that gets them. Very few healthy rock pools don't get fresh cold water dumped in them a couple of times a day. A chiller is a must really, especially coming into summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 +1 to what suphew said especially in a small volume, i have run for a few years with no chiller but a large volume of water with the sump in a cold basement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted September 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 How are you making your chiller? I have stainless steal piping (316L) for the cooling rack and a bunch of other bits to make it, will post in DIY when I make it. As for sump / filtering - the chiller and filter I will be making for it will add a good 20 or so liters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted September 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I will have a thermostat controller on the pump taking water from the chiler, set to turn on and off at the right set temps. I do have a skimmer for a 200L tank but don't have a sump for it yet... I might look into that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 BTW your stainless tube will rust, you will get about 6 months out of it. Even 316, I've tried it. This is why proper chillers use Titanium tube (and cost so much). Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. 316 is usually regarded as the standard “marine grade stainless steel”, but it is not resistant to warm sea water. In many marine environments 316 does exhibit surface corrosion, usually visible as brown staining. This is particularly associated with crevices and rough surface finish. http://www.azom.com/Details.asp?ArticleID=863 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrblobby666 Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 It may not be the amount of anemones you have that could be bad, it's going to be what your feeding them, say if your feeding them each a piece of musscle or some frozen food your water is going to go foul without a skimmer or regular water changes if you have a larger number of anemones. Just my 2c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted September 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 well if even 316L will rust that quick i will just kick this idea for now... don't have the money to buy a good chiller... Might just setup a 200L trop salty instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 My water never fouled and I didn't have a skimmer or do regular water changes on my cold water rockppol marine. :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 well if even 316L will rust that quick i will just kick this idea for now... don't have the money to buy a good chiller... Might just setup a 200L trop salty instead You might be able to get away with a heat exchanger setup. The stainless cooling a smaller tank of fresh water that won't corrode the stainless which you have a coil of pvc or some kind of hose running through full of the marine tank water. Cooling tanks is easy, cooling them reliably, practically and inexpensively...Not so easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 My water never fouled and I didn't have a skimmer or do regular water changes on my cold water rockppol marine. :-? Sorry Caryl, but bad advise, i can pick you never tested the water, didn't know what levels of nitrite or nitrate existed in the water, and although things may have looked ok, i bet the weren't feeling ok. Even small rockpool type tanks need to be cycled and tested before torturing the poor things you are going to put in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 All were acting fine as far as we could see. None died, some were breeding so I take that as a good sign. All I meant was you can have a successful cold water marine rockpool tank without adding extra equipment. A chiller is a must though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Again, not good to steer newbies that way. You need the equipment to run any saltwater tank, - no skimmer, no filter, no water changes is a big recipe for disaster. I have run coldwater marine tanks for over 25 years, so have some experience. No marine tanks should have critters in them until they are cycled and tested, fullstop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 I don't necessarily agree that you need a skimmer, there are plenty of marine (tropical and cold) tanks out there that run without skimmers. However, you do need some method of nutrient/waste export. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 The ideal would be to have a house within a couple hundred feet of the ocean. Then you could pump water straight into the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 I don't necessarily agree that you need a skimmer, there are plenty of marine (tropical and cold) tanks out there that run without skimmers. However, you do need some method of nutrient/waste export. and an awful lot of experience before running a skimmerless tank. Its not so much how many tanks are running skimmerless, its how many sucessful tanks are run skimmerless, for more than 6 months. This is practicable advise to a newbie setting up his first tank, not experienced reefers playing with alternative nutrient export systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 I am sure you are right but we ran ours skimmerless for 2 years with no problems whatsoever and just ran an AquaClear filter. The only death we had was the octopus (who escaped). The only reason we dismantled it was we could not keep it cold enough over summer without a chiller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaymann Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 am curious as to why people asking what is needed to run a NZ (temperate) tank as opposed to a tropical marine, apart from the obvious equipment, isn't it just replacing the heater units with a chiller?? am I wrong here ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Pretty much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 NZ temperate is similar at the basic level to tropical, but very little stuff is photosynthetic, which means it needs to be fed. This leads to problems with waste removal (which is why skimming is so much more important), and also a lot of critters will either eat anything and everything in the tank or are very specific feeders. There's not a lot of middle ground. Also the natural rock in NZ isn't coral based and tends to be volcanic so it's difficult to get a balance between the filtration you need from the live rock and the biodiversity you need for feeding etc from local rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 yes, so i'm using and reccommend using coral based rock for local coldwater systems. just tried to pick the pieces that are going in the display tank to look more rock like and less dead coral like, if that makes sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Thanks for all the input. I've decided just to save up and go trop once I've upgraded my 4 foot freshwater tank. Then I'll use the 4 foot for the trop saltwater setup. I thought with how much trouble it is to sort a chiller out and a few other bit my other half and I talked about, trop sounds like a better way for us to go, and I'll have another go at a NZ saltwater later in life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaymann Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 You can as I did when living in NZ is place coral rock in the sump/s .. and keep the volcanic rock in main tank for realism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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