kiwiplymouth Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 google Planet catfish of the month Dec 2000. yep, I have read that artical quite a few times over the last week or 2. This is a quote from the artical With identification being such a fraught, tentative process, it is perhaps reassuring to know that care of all of these fish is somewhat simpler if not less demanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I do agree with you regarding it be ideal to have pure strains. But if it is possible for 2 fish to breed in the wild and come from the same area of river or lake then cross breeding almost certainly does happen in the wild so why shouldn't it happen in the aquarium Because in the wild it makes no difference - the true strains will continue as well as the cross-bred ones. In an artificial environment such as the aquarium hobby, "true strains" end up being lost because of cross breeding - especially with fish that are rare and difficult to import. This is further exacerbated by people (and again Im not saying you will) not saying what things are. They end up as mixed strains but still described in the name of the true one. Eventually you lose the original and end up with something else. There are purists who dont want that to happen. Having said that, as a hobbyist, if you are happy with having paid for a pair of L018's and not actually got what you paid for, and you are happy to breed them for people who could care less if they are true L018s or not, then all well and good. Just as long as you dont sell any offspring as L018s I am sure you will get some pretty fish either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Or you oculd always try swap one for another of the other species Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiplymouth Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Is there any point in them breeding like rats if they are different species ? If I paid a fair chunk for a pair of one species I would be pretty hacked off if they did turn out to be different. Apart from not being what they were described as, if they do breed, then we will be seeing lots of cross breeds that doubtless would be described as the wrong thing (not by Kiwiplymouth I'm sure, but by whoever buys them further down the line). That may not bother Kiwiplymouth and if so then theres no issue, but if it was me I wouldnt be too pleased. Sorry, Im a bit of a stickler when it comes to pure strains. Because in the wild it makes no difference - the true strains will continue as well as the cross-bred ones. In an artificial environment such as the aquarium hobby, "true strains" end up being lost because of cross breeding - especially with fish that are rare and difficult to import. This is further exacerbated by people (and again Im not saying you will) not saying what things are. They end up as mixed strains but still described in the name of the true one. Eventually you lose the original and end up with something else. There are purists who dont want that to happen. Having said that, as a hobbyist, if you are happy with having paid for a pair of L018's and not actually got what you paid for, and you are happy to breed them for people who could care less if they are true L018s or not, then all well and good. Just as long as you dont sell any offspring as L018s I am sure you will get some pretty fish either way. These fish haven't been positively ID'ed yet Even if they are wild caught there is no way of knowing if they are pure or not. If these guys do ever breed in the distant future they would never be sold as a pure line unless I could get a positive ID from more than one person. Yes they are purdy and I like em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 These fish haven't been positively ID'ed yet Even if they are wild caught there is no way of knowing if they are pure or not. If these guys do ever breed in the distant future they would never be sold as a pure line unless I could get a positive ID from more than one person. Yes they are purdy and I like em. Absolutely Actually i like Dixon's suggestion (for once, lol) If they are not the same, find the other side of the pair for them both hehe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 they will make purdy babies alright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiplymouth Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Ok, so I have been talking to the seller tonight and this is part of the reply The plot thickens :bounce: :bounce: Hi, I have had eggs and babies they just never managed to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 oooh :bounce: just need the id now have you tried posting the question on planetcatfish? at least you have a pair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiplymouth Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 oooh :bounce: just need the id now have you tried posting the question on planetcatfish? at least you have a pair I'm waiting for mr pleco to get online and look at this thread. planet catfish is a good idea. Or may just advertise as yellow spotty purdy catfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilah Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Hey guys, just thought I would chuck in my 2 cents In my opinion they are two different species and have two different L numbers so I personally would not try and breed from them as a pair Also I dont want to sound negative but I dont believe they would have bred before as they look way too small and will still take a couple or more good years of growing before they are anywhere near sexable/breedable. Theres a few around though so it shouldnt be too hard to find others to add to your collection for a crack at making a pair for a chance at breeding somewhere down the line Nice fish and well done with the photos as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I'm waiting for mr pleco to get online and look at this thread. planet catfish is a good idea. Or may just advertise as yellow spotty purdy catfish You can always PM him - he is very approachable and he would probably get email notification of the private message Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 i dont really care what they are as long as they look as nice as they do. :lol: :bounce: the whole pure thing doesn't do it for me(years of bilology and genetic classes etc, plus family FULL of doctors, its all I get to hear about). what ever they are, they are awesome, and if they did breed I WANT a baby, lol. :bounce: if its going into a display setup its fine. as long as every other tom, dick and harry out there doesn't sit ruining all the fish strains we have here (almost impossible mind you) oh almost forgot - now that ive opened my mouth to change feet, i must stay well clear of this topic, lol :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I agree that the top one looks like a L018 and the bottom like an L081 - not that I really know anything about them but have had a look at planet catfish. Your bottom pics look very much like the picture on the site. Either way they look very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 i dont really care what they are as long as they look as nice as they do. :lol: :bounce: the whole pure thing doesn't do it for me(years of bilology and genetic classes etc, plus family FULL of doctors, its all I get to hear about). It is important for me as I believe for these lovely fish to survive the aquarium hobby in restricted old new zealand we need to make every effort to keep things true. Otherwise there is no value - everything is a mongrel. If all houses were square boxes that looked the same and all cars were blue fords and everyone wore grey suits would that matter ? Crap analogy i know, but you get my drift. We need our fish to remain true to what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr pleco Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 hey guys ,and the debate rages , i agree on pure starins and where we can ,need to stay true to the cause BUT and a big BUt ,if it means its the only way we can breed them in the aquarium and they become a rare quatity then it is somewhat acceptable to save them by this means . On that note dont know if you all realised but the L018 and L081 come form exactly the same regions of water maybe the L081 is a just a variation of the L18. if you look at adult L18s the spots are similar to a L081 and so the debate rages i cant say for certain that they are two different species or not and nor can planetcatfish as photos are reliant on the ppl that take em , maybe the photo of the adult L18 is in fact a L081 . anyway on the positive i would assertain by head shape the first two pipcs of an L018 is definetly male and the last two pics look VERY good of being female i think the guy that told you they had bred before had one too many wiskeys before typing but hey for you kiwi i hope i am wrong then YOU would be a legend but the pesimist in me agrees with what ilah said before . HTH mr pleco and good luck ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 hey guys ,and the debate rages , i agree on pure starins and where we can ,need to stay true to the cause BUT and a big BUt ,if it means its the only way we can breed them in the aquarium and they become a rare quatity then it is somewhat acceptable to save them by this means . On that note dont know if you all realised but the L018 and L081 come form exactly the same regions of water maybe the L081 is a just a variation of the L18. if you look at adult L18s the spots are similar to a L081 and so the debate rages i cant say for certain that they are two different species or not and nor can planetcatfish as photos are reliant on the ppl that take em , maybe the photo of the adult L18 is in fact a L081 . anyway on the positive i would assertain by head shape the first two pipcs of an L018 is definetly male and the last two pics look VERY good of being female i think the guy that told you they had bred before had one too many wiskeys before typing but hey for you kiwi i hope i am wrong then YOU would be a legend but the pesimist in me agrees with what ilah said before . HTH mr pleco and good luck ... Its a good point that if it means keeping them one way or another that it might be acceptable to cross breed (if as you say they are that anyway), though I was under the impression that there was still sufficient availability of the L018 to be able to consider maintaining pure strains ? I reckon the best bet (as was said before) is to keep both and find mates for them both who look the same types hehe - then you can breed both strains Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simian Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I too concur with Ilah and Mr Pleco they seem too small to breed especially if they are L018, I'd love to be proven wrong tho. I too suspect they may be different sp but as Mr Pleco has rightly pointed out, you have to take the photos on PC with a grain of salt, I have seen many pics which just dont seem to line up with what they are supposed to be. As to the hybridisation the jury is out, as long as they are passed on as Baryancistrus sp "gold nugget" I personally would happily buy for display purposes. My biggest concern with trying to find another of the same sp to swap with and try and breed would be that gold nuggets are notorious at fighting amongst them selves, if you split them the new couple might very well kill each other. I'd keep em together and see what happens as they grow out more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiplymouth Posted May 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 I had a good long chat on the phone with the seller this afternoon. I was told that they have spawned and had fry twice. The first time the fry died it was put down to water temp and the second time the fry got to about finger nail size and all died within an hour of a 20% water change. These were the only two fish in the tank both times. I got a got handle on what the water parameters were and what gets them in the mood. I will try to replicate their old environment and see what happens. I realise that many of you think that they are too young to breed and i must say the i agree with you but after talking to the seller, I believe that they are telling the truth. Watch this space. P.S. the seller told me that they have 2 other 3 year old gold nuggets that are approx 14cm and share the same 300L tank along with a few other fancy plecs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melrick1 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Hmmm I also think that they are way too small, and if the seller was knowledgeable enough to successfully spawn and hatch two sets of young why would he be reckless enough to kill them on a simple water change and giving them a poor diet. Sounds similar to the trademe add for a breeding pair of common plecos in a two foot tank... They are beautiful fish, but if they were successful breeders I’m sure he would have mentioned that in the auction at least, not when you contact him in regards to clarification on the species. I think it was a good buy on your part and am jealous az lol but think he is lying to you (which is very unfair considering the money you will have forked out for them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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