mark1078 Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Hi, We bought a tank about a year ago, it is a aqua 320 and it holds 28 litres of water. We have had fish in the tank for about 6 months till we got into trouble (these were normal goldfish), the fish kept on dying, since the beginning of this year things are getting worse and we are at a point where our tank stood in the garage ready to sell on Trade Me. After the second to last fish died 3 weeks ago I took a sample of the water to the petshop, the guy was really helpfull, he said that the ammonia level in the tank was too high and this needed to go down immediatley, we vacuumed the pebbles (stones) every day and the guy at the pet shop also gave us a little bottle of API Ammonia Detoxifier (which we used as instructed), but our last fish died about a week ago, he was swimming upside down and was very weak. We cleaned the tank and was ready for sale on Trade Me, until we thought we would give it one last shot! Now, the tank has been cleaned, the pebbles in the tanks we have halved the amount, because we think there might be too much pebbles in the tank that would cause more ammonia build up. We are ready to buy a new fish, but we are wanting to make sure that we are doing our best to keep the tank clean and do not kill our fish over and over again, any advise you pro's can give us??? We are at a point where the funn of having fish is taking off, but we will give it one last try...that's why we need your help! Mark & Cherie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 hi guys welcome to the forum sorry to hear of your problems if you add the area you live in locals may be able to help does this tank have the overhead filter system on it? how often did you clean filter? just a couple of questions to get started Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1078 Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Hi! We live in Rotorua. We have a Aqua one Filter 101F, this is cleaned sometimes twice a week. Mostly we do a water change once a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Hi, How many fish did you have in the tank. 28 litres is not much and from what I have read (never had my own goldfish) under the coldwater section of this forum goldfish are pretty messy fish. It may be that the tank is too small for more than one fish. Ammonia builds up very suddenly, if your fish are messy it may be that the water will need to be changed every day or two - about 30% at a time. Another thing is that when you rinse out your filter you need to rinse it in the water you have taken out of the tank and not under the tap as fresh tap water will kill off any beneficial bacteria held in the filter and it is that, when established, that helps keep the ammonia levels down. For more advice from those more experienced in keeping goldfish you might be best to post under the coldwater section on here. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim r Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Go into Wonderworld on Clayton Road and talk to the owner he will be helpful. 28L is not very big and goldfish are big poopers which in my opinion is always going to give you ammonia problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Also, by cleaning the filter all the time, you're knocking out the good bacteria in the tank. I'd personally only use a 380 for something like tetras; small fish with a small bioload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc360 Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Hi Mark, sorry to hear about your difficulty. THe good news is you have an awesome fish store right on your back yard. What i would recommend is keep the tank. Buy a small heater, and stock your tank with a couple of easy to grow plants, and a couple of real easy fish to keep like Guppies of Platties- both these fish can be very rewarding to keep especially for a beginner. This is a great way to start out as you get the enjoyment of watching your investment increase (plant growth and breeding fish) in value instead of decrease (dead fish). What ever you go for in the way of fish make sure they are small fish that get no bigger than 5cm when fully grown. The hardest thing about this hobby is dead fish. Joining this forum is a real good idea though as you will be able to get info from a great source of experienced fish keepers. All the best, post pics and let us know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Sorry for all your losses but don't give up! I had to check on the converter so 28L is approximately 7 gallons. As was already stated that is much too small for goldfish. Platties/guppies as suggested would be a good starter fish. Perhaps for all males so that you don't end up with lots of babies. More babies more tanks but maybe you are not ready for that just yet. Search for "cycling" which will explain what happens in a new tank set up to get to the point of having GOOD bacteria for your tank. Just a couple of things just in case you haven't read/know, but don't take offence please if you already know these things: 1) When setting up a new tank rinse, rinse, rinse, and then rinse some more everything that you are putting in the tank with just plain water. NEVER use soap on anything associated with your tank. 2) Leave the tank run for a period of time then slowly add fish. A tank this size probably only 1 or 2 at a time. 3) The fish will provide waste, which will start the cycling process (ammonia, nitrite...and so on, read in "cycling tank") 4) If you (which was suggested) live close to a LFS, you can have them test your water. Or, you can buy your own test kits (at least ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH). If you don't want to get into all that just yet, perhaps just the ammonia for now. 5) As your tank begings to cycle you will get a build up of ammonia. Ideally you want no ammonia when you test. But a new tank will get readings and once you get that you can start doing small water changes to reduce the ammonia and other nasties not wanted in tank. 6) Once your tank stablizes and your parameters (ammonia & such) are all where they should be you can add a couple of more fish. 7) Don't clean your filter until your tank is established. I don't know what kind of filter that you have but there will be a "bio" filter which will hold all the beneficial bacteria that you're aiming for in your tank. This bio filter must NEVER be cleaned. After your tank is established, when doing a water change you can take the bio filter and occassionally give it a "swish" around in the tank water you have removed. Okay, sorry for such a long post. Just trying to think of things to help. Keep us updated. Don't give up, we will help you, just ask away Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Yea tanks way to small to hold comets, a fantail or such maybe ok - if you are wanting to stick with coldwater i'd suggest mountain minnows they say small possibly even paradise fish? Or like others have suggested go tropical, you have a greater selection to choose from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 i know lots of people kill there goldfish from over feeding (there should never be food left on gravel,) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie841 Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 How long did you have the tank set up for before you put fish in to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 How long did you have the tank set up for before you put fish in to it? What does that matter? You can put your first fish in as soon as you put the water in if you want.(if the waters been 'conditioned' that is) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie841 Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 I was thinking that there might have been a overload in the filter from the inital set up which would require the filter to be cleaned more often and never getting the chance to build up good bacteria (re: cleaning twice weekly. Washing away muck and bacteria) and the ammonia could have been slowley building up till it became a problem. I might be wrong but when I have set up new tanks and add fish too quickly the filters become dirty and clogged but if I add the same amount (or more) to the same tank over a longer period time I never have a problem. We did have a problem when first set up the filters needing to be cleaned weekly but now we have three times the fish in there and it is not needing to be cleaned as often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Caper has put a very excellent post about cycling a tank. I recommend that the original poster should read that and follow it step by step, and if in any doubt just ask! We will be very happy to help. I also agree that the tank is too small for goldfish. There are a few small fish you can keep in cooler water (white cloud mountain minnows have been mentioned) but you will have a lot more options if you add a small heater to the tank and go for tropical fish instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1078 Posted April 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Wow, thank you sooo much everyone! :lol: Our tank is ready to go, we are probably have 2 new fish in the, do you guys think that when we halved the amount of gravel the rubbish these fishes leave behind is easier to clean?? Also, what else do we need to monitor when we have the fish in there???? We do not want the fish to die again! So when when we get new fish, 20% water change after a week? Then recondition the water and ad the stress zyme For people that want to know, we have a aqua one 101F Filter, this gets cleaned once sometimes twice a week, it cycles at 400 litres an hour! (says in the booklet) If anyone can tell us how to add an photo to here we can show you guys! So greatfull for your help, gives us hope and encourage to try again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 good luck when i clean my fish tank(water change)i use a gravel vacum when you syfin the water it takes it from the gravel and you just move it round the tank pushing into stones and it picks up all the dirty water at the bottom instead of taking out the clean water at the top (its a handy tool) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 To post a pic on here you need to use a host. I use www.photobucket.com. It is free and easy to use. You can email me the photos if you can not get them to work and I will post them for you. I will pm you my email address. I am not sure if you know how to access any messages you get so if you look at the left hand side of the page under the logo you will see a box with .. new messages. Click on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochelleMay Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 I fully agree with a small heater and going for the tropical fish. I had always tried keeping goldfish but like yourself they always died, then we went for a tropical tank and it is so easy once your all set up you just need to keep up the water changing routine. Let us know if you decide on tropical or coldwater Do you ever travel to auckland or near it? We have some Platties which are still quite little so you can watch a couple of them grow up. But I unfortunatly dont have supplies to post them . But if your ever up these ways let me know or if your interested Next time I got to my batch in Rotoma I can brng some down. Although that'll be a while away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 whetu wrote: Caper has put a very excellent post about cycling a tank Thanks whetu :oops: I guess I am FINALLY learning a few things Mark1978, how much gravel do you have in your tank (approximately)? Inch/couple of inches??? When I do my regular water changes I do a "light" vacuum around the top of the gravel wherever I can reach with the vacuum. My tanks aren't that big (1, 10 gallon; 2, 29 gallons). Once a month I give a good cleaning. I then give a much "thorough" vacuuming. Especially in a new set up, as was already mentioned keep on eye on the water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, etc.). Once your tank is established and your readings are stable you can reduce the number of times you test (if you so choose, as some people do test on a regular basis). As you will read here, one major way to keep your tank "healthy" is to keep up with regular water changes. Now, with that said you will see where more experienced people don't test as often or even change the water as often. But like I said they are more experienced and sometimes they have lots of filtration and a low bioload (not overstocked tank). Watch your fish, feeding time is a good time to see how they are doing. Prime example, are they eating! Try to become familiar with their habits (example Susie the fish likes to swim out front all the time, but all of a sudden she is staying hidden in a corner, might be a time to source why this behaviour has changed). Watch for any physical changes in your fish, anything that appears to be out of the ordinary. May or may not indicate a disease or injury. Sometimes when a change happens could be a good time to check water parameters to see if they are good. Watch for water clarity (right word? :-? ). A new tank going through the cycling process will get cloudy but the cloudiness will go over time. If your water is always clear, then becomes cloudy, time for questions such as, anything changed in the tank (add anything new?), overfeeding? etc. Sometimes a tank will go through a bacterial bloom that will be taken care of by increase in water changes. Regular water changes (not just after adding new fish) is a good habit to get into. I don't use stress zyme so I don't know what it is for. But, if your water has chlorine in it, you will need to add conditioner (removes chlorine, chloloramine and other nasties). Some people don't use water conditioner and apparently their fish suffer no ill effects. The water supply here has chlorine in it so I don't take any chances and always use conditioner. I'm not familiar with your type of filter. Why are you cleaning it so often? What does cleaning entail? After all is said and done, the reality is that no matter how much TLC we give our fish, some will die. I'm not saying that to frustrate you, but just so that you know that death is a reality in our hobby. Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 STOP CLEANING YOUR FILTER :lol: Sorry for shouting, your problem is you love your fish too much and are trying to keep things too clean, the filter needs to build up bacteria, this is what converts the ammonia to less harmful nitrogen compounds. Doing water changes and vacuuming the gravel each week is great. But the filter should only been cleaned when the flow out of it drops because it is getting blocked up. And as others have said, when you do clean, just a very quick rinse in some old fish tank water, the chlorine in tap water will kill the bacteria and you'll have ammonia problems again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 when i first started i loved my fish too much :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1078 Posted April 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Hello Everyone! :bounce: Thanks all again for your help, we went to the fish shop today and got some more advice, Thanks to the poster that told me NOT to rinse the sponge of the filter under fresh water!! We were doing that!! The guy (I forgot his name, but says he is also a regular here in this forum!) at the petshop said he wanted me to start cleaning the tank after 3 weeks, then a 20% water change, also to clean the sponge of the filter in the bucket where the dirty water goes, and yes we have a vacuum to clean the stones. Adrienne was very nice and offered to us to post the photo's of our wee little tank online, We have sent them too him so they might be up later tonight, please come back if they are not on there yet because we are very interested in you pro's comments! Thanks again guys Mark & Cherie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Hi, here they are (and by the way I am a 'she' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1078 Posted April 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 :oops: ..... were embarrassed!! our apologies!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Info on how to post pics can be found here; viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2406 Welcome to the forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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