eclaire Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Hiya ... my name is Claire and I have a 21L coldwater tank, with two fantails and two minnows. I've noticed the water is getting a bit yuck quite quickly (starts to smell like "fish") (lol) which I haven't had before ... I have had these fish for about 5 months now. I have a feeling that due to a move in flats, the tank now gets direct sunlight in the afternoon, so I'm not sure if that is good for them or not? I clean the tank out every week. I don't have a filter for it, as the one which was provided in the start up pack with the tank doesn't acutally fit over the "lip" of the tank (not very bright selling something that won't work). I have a little car in the tank which can be conntected to an airline to get more oxygen in the tank, but I wonder if it causes too much disturbance to the water, as the whole capacity of water is pretty much affected, and I don't want to scare my wee fishies!! I check the pH levels and adjust accordingly, the fish seem happy enough, but I'm thinking getting snails to help clean the tank a bit more. How many would you suggest I would need for a 21L tank? I have also been advised to get a cory, though it's a bit tricky to find one in the Christchurch area which is suitable for a cold water tank. I have been given conflicting informtion - have told my fantails may eat the cory by one person, then someone else said they should be fine ... so it's a bit hard to know who to believe... :-? Any tips/suggestions greatly appreciated :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Hi eclaire and welcome. Now for the bad news A 21L tank is not big enough for 2 fantails and 2 minnows, especially without filtration. How are you cleaning out the tank every week and adjusting the pH? Direct sunlight is going to cause problems, especially in summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclaire Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Thanks for your reply ... the fantails are only small, and of course the minnows are teeny ... animates told me this number of fish would be fine for a 21L tank ... but I have subsequently been told they are not the best place for advice... I know I should only replace 1/3 of the water each week, but I've actually been changing the whole lot... the fish seem to be fine with this... I also give the stones a bit of a rinse out (again I probably shouldn't do this as it gets rid of the "good" bacteria in the tank? but I've been doing this for a while now and the fish are not displaying signs of stress. I add agar and stresszyme to the tank on each water change. I purchased a pH level testing kit, which has remedies to either increase or decrease accordingly, I do this on a weekly basis after each water change. I clean the tank out in the weekends, however I had to clean them out on Wednesday as the water was particularly murky and very smelly. I noticed the oxygen shell had turned grey too, so I removed it from the tank, as I'm not sure if it would be effective or not. I have oxygen weed in the tank for fishies to munch on, as well as other varities of plants, but I do make sure they have some plants that they can eat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianab Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 If the tank is smelling 'off' with 100% water changes each week you may be feeding them too much. Any uneaten food will decay in the tank.. yucky, and toxic to the fish. Maybe cut down on the feeding, small fish will only eat small amounts. I would suggest you get a small internal power filter, or even set up an undergravel filter with an airpump. A bit of decent filtration and water movement will help heaps. With a small tank like that I would give away the goldfish, they may be OK when they are small, but they will get too big for it pretty fast, especially if it's not filtered well. You could stick with the WCMM, a bunch of them will be fine in that size tank, and will probably breed if you look after them well. Cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclaire Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Actually, it was only the first time last week that the water was smelling bad ... prior to that it was fine. I was under the impression that fantails will only get bigger in size relative to the size of the tank, so if they are only in a small tank, they shouldn't get too much bigger? I thought getting a cory would be good to eat any left over food ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsarmina Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 hi eclaire, glad you joined up you will get all the answers you need here. if not, ask more questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclaire Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Fingers crossed!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 If a tank is too small the fish's growth will be stunted. This causes internal problems and shortens the life of the fish - by a considerable amount. We all know of fish that have outgrown their tank and your fantails will too How much are you altering the pH? You should not need water ager as ChCh has good water which does not need this. The problems will get worse as the fish grow. Do not get a cory, you are overstocked already. Feed less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclaire Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 thanks ... I alter the pH to whatever the optimum level it should be (I can't remember off the top of my head). This the test kit I have. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pe ... 183904.htm How much and how often should I be feeding them? I feed them a combination of flakes, pellet thingees and blood worms so they get a variety and don't get constipation. Are you sure I'm overstocked already? The tank is a pretty good size - it'snot huge I know, but it's not tiny either ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclaire Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 I've also organised for some snails for the tank to help keep it cleaner - how many do you think I will need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclaire Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 just noticd the forum posting times are out due to NZ changing to Summer daylight savings time last weekend... when will this be updated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Sorry but 21L is not huge by any standard and is considered too small for goldfish 8) You have to update your own personal profile to alter the posting time. Go to Profile and change to GMT + 13 (I think) Snails will not necessarily keep the tank cleaner as they will add to the bio load and they poo more than they eat If you are altering the pH all the time this will have a detrimental effect on the poor fish. Goldfish are very tolerant of a wide range of pH so there should be no reason to alter it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclaire Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 actually I haven't changed the pH level in a month or so, so hopefully they will be ok ... I try to get it to as close to neutral (I think) as I can. It would be good to get them a bigger tank, but I can't afford to spend much ... what size would you recommend, and can you think of any reasonably priced sellers ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclaire Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 from the following measurements? 76cm wide 39cm deep 35cm high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carznkats Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Welcome Eclair You'll get lots of good info from this site!!! If you're not too busy on Saturday evening come join us for a Totally Tanked meeting! See this link for more info http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/october-meeting-of-chch-totally-tanked-vt24824.html :lol: Goldfish can get quite big and are messy fish, hence it's recommended to have them in a large tank... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclaire Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Thanks - the meeting sounds great .... I will definitely be there ... I have found a variety of fish tanks on trademe, ranging from 59L to 182L - - so I have a few options! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Hi Eclaire, now im not the expert like alot of other people here, but i kept: 1 x 10cm goldfish 1 x 10cm fantail 2 x cories 3 x borneo sucker fish 4 x long finned danios in a 60x40x40 cm tank (96l but about 80l of actual water) for about 4 years with an internal filter that did about 500 l/h and with about a 25% water change every week (or 2 when i was a bit lazy... ) These were very happy and very healthy fish. The goldfish was about 10 years old when i gave him (or her) away last month. I'd say this would be a good size for you with your fish plus a few extra corries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianab Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 from the following measurements? 76cm wide 39cm deep 35cm high Thats more like 90 litres by my maths. Not huge, but much more sensible for some small goldfsih They will still outgrow it, but if you are happy to give them away or move them to an outdoor pond and replace them when they get bigger it will be OK. Large goldfish will eat WCMM eventually anyway :-? Feeding... basically give them what they can eat in 5 mins. Any more and it will sink to the bottom, get lost and go rotton :-? Once a day should be fine, you can feed them more often, but make sure it's small amounts and they eat it all. The fish really need only a small amount of food to survive, but goldfish can eat plenty in 5 mins, so there is a pretty wide range of acceptable feeding. Just avoid too much. I would leave the pH as it is, it's not critical for most fish, and goldfish can handle a wide range of water conditions. If you try and adjust it you usually end up with the pH fluctuating up and down, thats much worse than a steady reading slightly off centre. Get a power filter of some type and your tank should settle down to where partial water changes and syphoning the dirt out of the gravel is all thats needed. A few snails will be fine if thats what you want. If you want to keep corys I would suggest a heater to stop the water temp going below 20C in the winter. Your goldfish and WCMM will handle water down to about 5C and up to 25C in the summer, but Corys are actually tropical. But they can handle the lower end of the tropical range around 20C, but will get very unhappy (dead) if it goes much below that. Cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclaire Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 this is getting all too complicated for plain old gold fish!! lol I'm really confused now to what I should do .... It seems to be getting all too hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianab Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 NO.. "too hard" is trying to do it without a properly set up tank. If your tank isn't filtered in some way you will have heaps of problems, as you are having now. Set it up right and it will take 15 mins a weekend to maintain and your fish will be healthy and long lived. Keeping fish isn't hard, but you do have to do it right. 8) Cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclaire Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 thanks Ian What size tank would you recommend for my fishies? I have a siphon thingee to get the left over food etc from the between the gravel, but I just can't get the darned thing to work!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclaire Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 It's hard because I'm getting conflicting information from different people at different sources, so it's getting pretty frustrating knowing who to believe and who not to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub.z Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Hi eclaire, cool pic by the way Just keep in mind you need some filtration and possibly a pump for oxygen. If you cant get hold of a filter try to get hold of a pump that way the water will be circulated and probably take away the smell. If you go to the totally tanked meeting someone may be able to lend you something to help out Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclaire Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 I do have a pump but I'm not sure if it causes too much water disturbance as it affects pretty much the whole tank... I also have a filter, but it only has a narrow slot to fit over the edge of the glass, and the tank that it came with has a lip around all four sides, so the filter won't fit .... (that's animates for ya) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilson Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 hi eclaire dose the tank look like this minus fish etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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