puttputt

posted at the same time joe blog, - I would think that the extra nutrients are being tied up by the critters before they can be exported, other wise with effective skimming they would be exported. I never said that there is no increase in bioload, just question how much. My sand doesn't heave with life , somewhat of a scary thought if it did, but the surface of the sand, and the glass, and the rock in there teems with pods and shrimp. I also think you can underestaimate the value of this type of food, as opposed to you adding dead or dryfood. I don't think there is a clear yes or no answer, i guess the results of each persons system speak for themselves.

benefits of a refugium - A refuge for pods, shrimp, worms etc to live, breed , multipy without preditation and the export of this life into main tank - proven that 90% of pods can pass through pumps. If these animals are breeding, think of the tiny (plankton) live food getting to your display. - remote running of a sand bed, giving the ability to moniter and change this sand bed simply without disrupting main tank. - possible nutrient reduction, but limited to high nutrient tanks, better suited to fish only for this. - putting bad blue legged hermits that keep knocking your acros over, and hairy gorilla crabs that you dont have the heart to kill.

some what bigger than that JoeBlog 2.44 x 1.22 x .76, excellent size.

where were you when I needed you!! the point I was trying to make is just as you say, that there are alot of other benefits to having a refugium, but not nutrient control, I struggle to grow any macro algae, and when a little does grow, it quickly runs out of nutrients and I have to remove it. But the critters that thrive in the ref are brilliant. I don't beleive for a moment, what Layton wrote, that the bioload of these critters and bacteria in a std size ref is massive, more than all the fish and corals in the main tank put together. The fact is I am not feeding these critters, would not input any less food, or additions if I didnot run a refugium so can't see his point.

dunno what your looking at Michael, sure looks like valonia to me. Did it pop???, a sponge wont pop.

That's why I said pop it while siphoning, so you suck it all up. Better that way than try to pull it off and it pops anyway.

you and your luminarc's

just opinion Layton, never claimed anything else, unlike yourself. Anyway, fun during a boring day at work

I feel for wasp.

the life of an IT guru.

I haven't stated what i think the bioload is, just asked you to back up your statements, and indicated that my opinion is that you are exaggerating, substantially.

my point Layton, you don't know what bioload a ref with a sand bed, and pods is adding, you can't quantify it because you have no idea. To say that it is a massive load on the system, more than all the fish and corals is another exagerated opinion by you, without any sound facts behind it.

massive - large - substantial. getting there, how much layton. Do you know??? As much as a small Damsel?? All guess work.

not alot in the way of conclusions in those articles, other than not to add Strtium unless it is low (measured). Do you test for it Chimera.

while siphoning, pop it, suck it up. Its a balloon filled with water.

suck 'em up when you do a water change.

can't see why you need more coraline Chimera???

not talking about any extreme cases Layton, std ref. Mines a 1m tank, tell me what massive bioload that is adding to my system.

the load has gone from massive to large, moderate to small next maybe. What are you comparing this massive load to?? A DSB, 2/3/4 extra fish, another 20kg of rock??all very subjective statements Layton based on what?

What, from a small refugium. Rubbish. opinion instead of fact!.

its like arguing with the wife, never get the last word.

Layton, re read my post at the top of the page. and how much more bioload do copepods, mysid shrimp and the like add, let be honest here.

your need to weigh the benefits of the increased life against those points Layton, similar to the sand bed vs bb argument. I don't think there is a easy answer, with merits on both sides. I've seen some stunning RC TOTM with refugiums, so there has to be good reasons to run them.

what if you don't run macro algae, just sand, rock, critters? And if you did run macro, would these "secretions" outway the nutrients that will be transported by regular removal of plant?

how?