ilwis

i agree its got to be the most awesome thing out water changes in my 250 ltr done 10 mins 40% water change love it i also hooked it up to both my hot and cold water at the same time so i get the right temp every time my other most awesome tool is the paint scraper (red handle replaceable blades) about $5 and nice holding no more scrubbing sponges no more sharp blades for shaving just a nice handle that i keep away from the silicone and takes all the algie away from the glass

yes i wouldnt have a problem with that but who is really going to have 200mm of substrate in a tank only 800 high it will turn your tank into a long 600mm tank or by way of your picture it wouldnt change the ammount of pressure the glass has to withstand just as a note about safety factors, a safety factor of 2 is standard a safety factor of 3 or more is considered unnessary excess its like building a coffee table with 6 legs when its just a square table also something to think about: in the past i made a coffee table fish tank basically i made the tank out of decking timber for the sides and a flat but of thin MBF as the base supported by more decking timber (the mbf was only 2mm) i then lined the inside with that clear plastic you get for your garden 2 layers thick 1 layer for incase it perished the other to hold the water this worked well held water for years and i sold it 2 weeks ago (ive had a long fin eel and some other small fish cant remember what they were but about $2 each) you could consider making your tank of ply then lining it with the thicker sheet plastic then all you have to do is seal where the sheets meet and where it meets the glass the ply is holding the pressure all its doing is suplying a water seal. to do the top edges you get a thin bit of wood but the plastic between the ply and the wood folded over a few times for strength and tack (small nail) it up with a bunch of them or just staples if your so inclined if you think its still too risky being plastic consider this http://www.trademe.co.nz/home-living/ou ... 239733.htm its just a plastic and holds a heap more water than what your looking at all you need to do is get the seals correct and the silicone you would use for any other tank would be able to stick to both the plastic and the glass, so that basically eliminates the cost of the fibreglass giveing you more money for glass and fish

lol kiwi ingenuity at its best :happy2:

heating will really be a kicker for you might pay to make the ply thicker than needed to add some insulation to help keep the cost down

yea it mostly just pressure of per square inch of height so doesnt matter about the length much at all it kinda works out that 1 square cm of surface area in a colum of water 1m tall is about 1 kg so say your tank is 1m cubed then the bottom of the tank is holding the spread out weight of about 1000kg (1 ton) but if the tank is 1m x 1m but only 50cm deep the bottom only has to hold 500kg weight spread over the surface, in saying that it makes it only .5kg per square cm by adding the safety factor and working out your proposed tank of 15mm glass (man im not good with math) 300x120=36000 square cm .9 tall means its .9kg per cm2 then the safety factor of 2.4 is 0.9x2.4=2.16 so really your tank can handle 2.16kg per cm2 not enough for a adult to walk inside but plenty to cover how much weight the water and rocks will handle not to mention your bottom is wood and not glass anyway so i guess its just rambelings other than that being the pressure the joins or bottom square cm of the tank can handle? i guess it gives you refrence on how strong you need to make the base and joins anyway

oh wow thanks stella! i think i would have to keep them as above size limit and that would be a huge tank i just sold a coffee table that i had made that was a tank it would have been perfect for half a dozen of little ones but way too small for the big fullas maybe one day if i decide to upgrade my setup to a shop i could look at making a underfloor pond in the store and have some in there it would really make a good display for people, its the only way i can think of having a big enough tank other than doing some serious landscapeing its a shame there is no way that i know of to breed fish that go to sea to spawn it sounds like a fantastic species to find out things noone knows about them

is that the caase with most pond air pumps? because with the quanty of tanks im looking at it might be a good idea for me to look at pond air pumps so i dont need to think too much about having to upgrade in the future, and if they are that quiet it might be the golden ticket for me im fearly sure the 2 things that will upset my wife the most is the noise and mold with the entire venture

you know now i look at the photo again it might be the black flonder it does have the little orange spots on it in what looks like the right places

oh wow thats really informative! when i was a kid i use to have some yellow flounder in a tank i think i had about 20 in a tank for about 3 months and they were quite happy i realeased them then none died while i had them and they were quite fanaciting so its ok in that respect i think i might need a very large tank for one as big as 45cm i might have to make one like a skate tank size it will be interesting to see what minfish have to say about them

i didnt think about it that way but i think with the flow of fresh cold water running directly into the tank it will cool the water quicker than the heater can heat the water since its radient heat to heat the tank it would be benifical to have the fresh air tho

oh wow thats awesome! i really want to find one around auckland can you seggest any ideas on where i may find some? eg what water depths, conditions, or anything that might help me find some? how big was your tank you had them in? also what fish lover will complain about having to get themselves a new big tank ? :happy2: oh the shame :gigl:

i dont know it could be a juvinile in your hand tho it looks like the common ones ive seen hundreds in the shallows of the sea, did you catch him in fresh water? the black flounder is knowen to be able to rivial the charmeleion for colour changing so thats kinda cool there has been descusion on the fish forum years ago (with some photos) viewtopic.php?f=41&t=39095&hilit=black+flounder but it didnt have much about where they are so hense opening this descusion i would like to find some and hopefully keep some if i can it would be nice to breed them too if at all possable all ive been able to find out about location is upper hut and christchurch is 2 places they have been seen

ive just had a look at some nz native fishes and have found out about our lovely black flounder im wanting to find out about if it can live in fresh water in a tank for its life or if it will die because it doesnt go to salt water also does anyone know if there is a place in the auckland region where i could find one of these guys? also black flounder is a difrent species than the brown ones found in most beaches right? or the ones ive seen with the orange spots are just the comon one but camoed to the enviroment it was found in (just so you know the one im refering too... ) http://www.rodmorris.co.nz/New-Zealand- ... &k=4Kp8f7X

wow that one looks great ive been kinda vearing away from compressors like that because of the noise they will make and with it being right outside the house im not wanting to bother the neighbour's with the noise the little one is quite alot quieter but still not silent and its small enough i can keep it in the room so it can curculate warm air into the water not cold air from outside

have you considered having a long pvc pipe the length of the tank with alot of holes in it to distrubite the suction over the tank? also if you made the tank what would stop you from using the plywood to make the sump also? it would help better than the glass to keep the heat in the tank especally if its outside? also something of note as a cheaper way of the sump why dont people just use a plastic tub? its not like your ment to see the sump anyway

you can get the liquid rubber from mitre 10 mega its $180 for a large tin its in the paint section tho they dont call it liquid rubber in nz i think its gasonal or some weird name begging with G its totally water proof and inert. also a good place to look for resin eg fibreglass is boating places have some fearly cheap if your in the north shore there is a boat place by the roundabout by supercheap albany i got some from there when i had to fix a pool it was much cheaper than anywhere else but that was 5 years ago and i dont know if its inert or not i havent looked into pond sealer... im kinda intrigued with what there is

i agree with ira if you frame the glass with wood and put a heavy wood framing the top of the glass like remu (i know you prob wont use rumu it was just a heavy wood i thought of right away) the wood will hold the deflection down and it wont be structural so i dont see any reason why it wont work also if your worries you can always but use angle iron for framing and then split the glass down the middle weild 2 bits of angle iron together like a T and fit the glass to give it that extra brace in the middle it would prob surport a safety factor of 4 then, but that is just my own speculation i guess you could use wood for the centre brace but if you were going to do that you would have to route the t shape you cant just nale or screw 2 bits of wood together.. too much pressure (tank that size even with heavy ply for other sides need to think carefully about your joins)

i am expecting that maf may want a seprate air system or at least oneway valves ive been trying to find how i can make a sound proofing box did you make yours? i still have some of the 50mm poly but im unsure if that will help much but i might make a box out of it to try it out, this pump i got form the wharehouse would be fantastic for the job if i can make it quieter and regulate the pressure because the allowence of the pump is able to pressure up to 120psi (i know i only need about 5-12psi) it means i should be able to have alot of tanks off the one pump without having to worry about it in future the "woble" or piston/diafram airpumps are quite good i would like one like that but basically since im just setting up i kinda have to treat the setup like a hobbie i cant put all my income into it right away or my wife might starve because i spent all the food money on fish related things, so hense the reason on trying to find inovative ways to make it work cheaply evin tho fish are not cheap

i think ira's idea of the thin not loadbearing pane is worth looking into its only to stop the main pannel from getting scratched so it doesnt need vacume it doesnt even need to be sealed if its just sitting in the water and heald bith a blob of silicone (or im expecting you want to use rubber glue) a blob on that in the top cornors of the glass so water can run all around it you wont have any of those problems mentioned before what might be better tho is if you make a track with the glass to slide in eaisly you can then clean in behind it it would make it allowable to use 3mm glass to protect it also from what i understand the safty factor means if you have a safty factor of 2.5 the tank can handle 2.5x the ammount of pressure the glass is rated to handle (to allow for defects in the glass) there already is a safety factor the manafucturs place on the glass but tank builders add in this extra safety factor

oh wow thats really good to know i was thinking it might be a bit of a myth but i had heard it froma few places or maybe because it was refering to volicanic rock when i was reading it ive always kept to rounder rocks anyway i only mentioned the cucumber because its a added little treat i feed them they like more than the fish food i also feed mine a vareation each day of JBL novo vert, auqa one cichlid pellets (i have some fish that pefer meat in the tank), new life spectrum cichlid formula, nutrafin max spirulina flakes, brine shrinp flakes, deshelled peas (keeps them regular , and pleco logs or algae chips (more for the plecos in there but the cichlids love it too) frozen bloodworm, oh and the cucumber i dont feed them all those things all at once at the same time just mix it up over the week some things (like the blood worms) only every few weeks

also might want to check this out http://www.theaquatools.com/building-your-aquarium

not recomended from what i understand you need to use pane glass (window glass) toughened glass when it breaks shatteres and therefore if you "bump" the tank you get ALL your water on the floor in a rush wheres window glass will crack and give you a slow leak (better to save the fish than picking them out of glass infested water on the floor) also toughened glass is "stiffened" so is less resilent to strain (pressure) there are other reasons but i cant remember them off the top of my head also 25 mm glass! OMG how big is the tank! for that much water i would stay away from toughened glass because the flexibility required by the pressure will pop the toughened glass like a balloon over the standard plate glass better to look into perspex for that size tank you can get up to 98% clarity with perspex wheres glass is lower i think 80% off the top of my head

just something to think about if your putting sharp rocks in there (unweathered slate) it can damage the mouthes of the fish, alot of those types of fish like to move rocks around and graze off of them so it might be a good idea to go to one of the rivers around your area and get the round rocks or mitre 10 tho they get the rocks from christchurches rivers anyway (about 3-5mm dia) they wont hurt the mouthes of the fish also grit is what most people use for those types of tanks so as substrate anything non sharp less than 6mm is good caves can be made using any rocks so your slate or river rocks tho i would recomend running some sandpaper over the slate also trophus do much better in large groups all tanganyikan and malawi cichlids like large groups and ill prob get shot for saying this but they can like confined spaces (as in over population if your bio system can handle it) (note! most of these fish will when getting into breeding (and they will) can become very aggressive toward other fish, if your tank is not big enough you will end up with fish being killed off for teritory it has been knowen for one fish to set up breeding tertory in one end of the tank and another species at the other end of the tank so fish become battered from both sides, you may not get this problem when they are small but the bigger they are the more breeding there will be and more space required also good ph, good food and cichlid lake salt will greatly increase colouring in your fish to the degree if you go to a pet store and see them there you will almost always say what horoble conditions for the fish, bad water no colour! i really love these fish they are a good choice lots of personalaty and every fish is diffrent, i hope it goes well and you like it! also bit of help for fish choices trophus = 12 or more to distrbuite aggression (kinda like dimosoni and yellow stripe) love the trophous tho one of my favs Astatotilapia brownae = 1 male several female (breeding ratio) will get a domonent male (more red) and subdomenent male (yellowish) females (gray) Aurora cichlid - Pseudotropheus aurora = schooling fish up to 30 in a school in the wild (11 cm max size) steveni taiwan = deep water fish 1 male recomended to if females introduced 1 male 3 females (breeding ratio) Kandango (Copadichromis Borleyi) gentle fish most of the time will school with females becomes territoral in breeding (as they all do) 1 male several females, biggest problem with these fish in nz is alot of inbreeding can be found in them so keep a eye on them when buying them especially mouth deformatys and bladder problems also can be territoral with blue fish peacocks are mostly the same as each other can be territoral with each other especially of similar colouring 1 male 3 female tho with you wanting only males that shouldnt be much of a problem unless a female somehow gets there most of the fish you have chosen like a tank about minimum of 120 so bigger tank happier fish hope this helps! oh dont forget too much proten will cause malawi bloat in these fish and most of the ones you have chosen love things like cucumber (my tank will eat a entire one (fed 5cm at a time) in about 5 days ) i still feed them other food and oly do that occcasionally as a treat but they love it)

another update on the rooms so i have all but one rack of shelves made in the breeding room ive installed the air line, ive been planning on using one of 2 air pumps my main one was one of those tire pump that plugs into the ciggrate lighter of the car (wharehouse $20) it was a old one i had around, it worked fantastic! except how noisy it was then it just stopped for some reason, i think it might of blowen the transformer i had it running off, my backup so far is a pump that has 4 outlets it very quiet and quite large (cant remember the name from memory its grey) but its not particually powerful i dont think i could split it much at all so i might make some modifacations to the car one or buy another one recomended to me at hollywood fish farm im thinking i would rather the car one because it provides alot of pressure so one could prob do the air in both rooms but its just the noise is quiet lould and i would want to find a way to turn it off at pressures and add a pressure cylinder to it this might end up costing more but if it can decrease the noise of it it might be worth my time ive also added 50mm poly to the floor of the room with a corragated plastic over it, eventuallly ill put wood under that, and i picked up a heater that will heat the room to 35c max (or whatever temp i want) (im thinking about 29c) i have a few tanks in there but have found my largest (120 x 45 x45) has a hole in the bottom so ill have to drain that and repair it, it was given to me it had a break in the bottom and someone had tried to repair it but failed i dont have any fish in there yet i want to get the room sorted first work out the kinks in it have it running happy for a week without fish then ill start putting fish in once i have this room going in a way im happy with ill have another talk with maf and get working on the quarteen room but i dont want to get too much into that one yet till i know this one works well and what i need to do so i can do it right first time

just a question are you trying to grow plants? because your conditions seem quite perfect for plants and after all green algae is a plant so what ever you put in to help your plants will help the algae grow too