chimera

http://reefshow.com/html/modules.php?na ... le&sid=109

in all honesty, you would be better off going skimmerless and spend the $200 elsewhere. you'd be wasting your time and money otherwise.

baffles after the skimmer would be preferred. in-sump skimmers still create quite a few bubbles (at least the deltec 1060 that i had certainly did!) the purpose of the baffles is to remove all bubbles prior to the return pump (or in fact, any pump) so the perfect design would be 2 sets of baffles with the skimmer in the middle - but thats really going a little overboard get the skilly out, cut a hole in your wall!

oh, and make sure that the baffle height matches the optimal water level required by the skimmer otherwise you'll have to do what i did and make a stand for the skimmer to sit on also, the water line will sit around about 5mm higher than the baffle (depends on flow rate, could be higher) lastly, the "empty" space above the top of the baffles to the top of the tank - possibly needs more room to compensate for backflow.

glad you're the first to admit it! i "thort" you "sould" go to spelling classes at some stage so from memory, you have an in-sump deltec 1250, a laguna 7 for the return. what about plumbing to the sump already? what size tank? what size is this sump? need more info! lets number the sections 1 through 3, from left to right (excluding the baffle region) the 1st section is for flow from the display tank and the 2nd section is for the skimmer right? i take it that you have done it this way to isolate the skimmer from the water entering the sump - good move however that baffle (that divides sections 1 and 2) needs to be ever so slightly higher than the one that divides 2 from the baffle region. is your drawing to scale? I can't read the dimensions. if it is to scale, the final section (on the right) needs to be larger. you will still get bubbles coming off the baffles (not many, but still enough to probably effect the performance of the laguna) otherwise, its a pretty simple design. does not need to be anymore complex than what you have shown. just a tip with the heater, put it in the 'baffle' region. benefits are that its out the way, less chance of getting knocked and broken and it comes in contact with a good deal more water passing around it. i run 3 heaters on a controller, one sits in the baffle region, one in the area where your skimmer goes and one (the cheapest $$$) in the return pump section - if the sump ran dry i lose a cheap heater, bummer.

ha! true, didnt even notice pm me and come have a visit. always best to learn a thing or two from others tanks! your beer, your missus beer, it's still beer mmmm,... beer...

test results, readings also taken 20cm from bulb (and a scorched hand ) the narva is 14k, the xm is 20k directly under bulb narva, 78k xm, 80k 20cm right of centre narva, 33k xm, 35k 20cm front of centre narva, 27k xm, 28k margin of error estimated around 3,000, need a steady hand and have to average out several readings. another point to make is the XM bulb is 2 months newer than the narva's, so in all honesty i see little difference between the two brands. additionally, if you angle the sensor ever so slightly towards the bulb, it can obviously increase. in fact, holding it on the outside of the reflector, between holding it level and a 45 degree angle, the lux increased by 15k. the readings i took were with it level. seems any conclusion taken from some of reef's readings are debatable, perhaps due to older bulbs or not taking the readings when all bulbs are on for the same period of time.

hey, what about mine :lol: thanks puttputt. just checked mine they're 22cm from the bottom of the bulb to the water surface so not too far off at all. will test lux meter soon and post results

is it becvause the tank shape needs to be irregular? or just a non-common shape? you can get long low size tanks easily enough. consider DIY or getting someone to make it for you? www.melevsreef.com is a good start In that case, full syphon would be best. You could also do a combo of both. The first section I would imagine is where the skimmer will sit. You need to ensure that there are no bubbles around the skimmer or it will effect it's operation. There are numerous methods you can use to further minimize bubbles from the overflow pipe. Fuge's don't need to be large. There are some really cool sump designs on melev's reef I posted above. Get some ideas off there.

no I doubt that they would, I can't recall a power plug hooked up to the reflector will test mine tonight using same parameters as yours. have the same lux meter. interesting to see readings. also have to make a note that my bulbs are about 4 months old now.

fair enough, my bad. you did use the word "your" in there so it does individualise it for a change. Yes, but that "best solution" is (not always) the best solution to someone else. Therefore it makes it an opinion, not fact. I dont want to get pedantic on words, but the point is you push what you want to be fact but its really just your opinion. Ahh it doesnt really matter anyway. I cant be arsed with it.

OMG you just dont get it do you

there you go again, wrong. product A might be (financially) cheaper so better for the pocket, but its not so reliable. product B might be more reliable but not as easy to use. product C might be easier to use, but not as cheap or reliable. so which product is the best Layton? these are unique to individuals. what your priorities and requirements are maybe different to mine. do you NOW get the point everyone is trying to make? what you think is the better product, solution or whatever does not mean everyone else (personally) thinks that it is.

go THROUGH the wall!! seriously, if you cant achieve what you want to achieve because of space limitations, a small hole in the wall ain't gonna hurt a thing and its going to make your life SO much easier. there are of course some superbly designed "mini-sumps" out there but why squeeze it into a confined area when you can CUT HOLES IN WALLS! if that doesnt appeal to you, post the dimensions for your skimmer, the display tank volume, laguna 7 lph plus overflow outlet size. also the maximum dimensions of your sump plus height limitations above it.

:roll: the BEST solution is not always the one that WORKS the best. things like "ease of use", "better priced", "more reliable" are some words that spring to mind. if that was not the case then 'the warehouse' would not exist

that's exactly what im asking, is the lower height (thus higher intensity) too much for corals to grow. if so, i'll raise them up.

they're only 20cm from the water surface. the readings are also taken AT the water surface which matches the sun. it does not count light and spectrum penetrating into the tank which i'd imagine the sun does a considerably better job at!

your tank is larger than mine, and I believe your lights are still sitting higher??? whats the distance from the bottom of your bulbs to the waters surface? can you measure for me pls? cheers! i think mine are 9" i'll check tonight. i adjusted to that height based on two things: 1. by basing the distance on the best spread of light from the analyzing reflectors web site and 2. by taking LUX meter readings to match approx what sunlight levels are in the tropics. the interesting thing is what wasp mentioned a few posts back, depending on where the sun is at various times of the day obviously changes intensity. lux meter readings at the tropics are around 100,000 during lunchtime. thats what mine is all the time. so, do corals prefer the weak to strong intensity that occurs in nature to happen in our tanks? i think i'll do an experiment (another one ) and raise the lights a couple of inches, test lux levels again then see what happens

of course, but... keeping on topic and using sumps as an example, you make it out that the full syphon is the only way to remove micro bubbles and any other method is flawed. the full syphon has its flaws too. i dont see you stating those? it leads people to believe that its the only true and tried method available. but wait? the durso works, sure it creates bubbles, but the bubbles are compensated by the baffles, the baffles serve more than one purpose, no micro bubbles in the display. this is still a viable solution is it not? my tank runs durso and baffles. i have NO micro bubbles in the display. but because the syphon method creates no bubbles, does that mean its the only method available? no, on the contrary BUT you post it like it is. do you see me discrediting the full syphon method? no, i would offer it as AN OPTION and state the advantages and disadvantages of both. be a little more open to all avenues, as i said before there is more than one way to skin a cat. oh, and the idea of providing ADVICE on a forum is exactly that, provide advice by showing advantages and disadvantages of various methods WITHOUT stating YOUR way as the ONLY way. let others decide whats best for their tank.

:roll: as usual, its more the way it's written than what you write. its a free world and you can post what you want, but IMO you come across as a sarcastic know-it-all smart arse who's opinion is stated as fact. most people think it, someone had to say it. many people value your advice - myself included, however why is it that more people seem to be irritated by your comments than anyone else? dont get me wrong, im not getting personal here nor am i putting you down, just take what i've said as constructive criticism and read what you've written before you submit it. theres more than one way to skin a cat. as wasp says, back to sumps.

durso and baffles complex? ok, if you say so. more complex than a syphon? probably the same time to setup either method. baffles serve other purposes too layton. for example, with baffles the water level in the first section is always at a constant level. this is handy to place heaters (you can be assured they will remain under water) or say if you had an in-sump skimmer. thats fine, offer suggestions without discrediting other ideas.

and i bet you complain to mummy when your dinner is cold. dont sweat the small stuff layton, you're starting to sound like my 8 week old puppy

air is good, oxygenates your water. baffles are simple to make. common sense really.

arhhh but does JDM have a magical LCD display that goes beep when you press the buttons? that's $2 grand worth of pretty bright lights and irritating beeps you know!

:lol: :lol: :lol: There is also another way - which is how I did it Have them run in parallel. In other words water comes down, first gets T'd off to the skimmer. The skimmer outlet dumps water into the sump. What the skimmer doesnt need (because flow is great enough that the skimmer doesn't utilise all of it) continues down the pipe to the fuge. The fuge outlet also dumps water into the sump. (I actually have another T which goes to the chiller also then dumps water into the sump) The sump has 3 x baffles / 2 sections. The first section of course gets the water from the skimmer, fuge and chiller. Water flows through the baffles to reduce microbubbles, the return section has an Iwaki pump that delivers water back to the display tank. I find this quite effective as I can also (once I plumb it up ) isolate the fuge from the main tank if needed (good incase of emergencies!)