David R

Thats about 3/4 what my entire 6'x2.5'x2' set up (tank, stand, sump, pump, media, and 2 300W jagers) cost!! If those are the prices you're being quoted it would be worth contacting Greg/Tanks2U and HFF to get quotes including delivery.

Exactly, my point was just that it depends on how you want to define the word hybrid. Technically speaking you are creating a hybrid on one level, but at the same time you could consider it linebreeding (or outcrossing) to avoid the negative connotations and you would still be correct. I think the best thing to do would be to continue with the experiment to see what happens, then decide if the fish can still be called rubescens. There is no cut-and-dry line that defines whether or not you are hybridising, some pureists would argue that what you have done is create impure fish, others would say its pointless debating different names based on collection location when the fish have been captive bred for more than a couple of generations. How do you define the "group" you are line breeding from? Species? Subspecies? Reigonal varient? Genus? As you say, if you're crossing fish that are all different varieties of the same species you are only creating an intra-specific hybrid. Like it or now, when you pick out some breeders from a batch of young you are selectively breeding. Here's my 2c on the subject: I wish the african cichlid enthusiasts would have a look at how this problem has been approached in the past, particularly with the breeding of Discus. IMO once you start breeding fish with out the pressures of natural selection its pointless considering them "wild types" and give them names that relate to habitat locations. I know that its almost impossible to get wild caught or F1 fish here in NZ, and so some people wish to cling to the lineage of their fish despite them being captive bred for so many generations that they better represent mans ideal of what they should look like, rather than what would necessarily survive in the lake. Rather than being pedantic about bogus names, I think people should be doing MORE hybridising and line breeding (like what Firenzenz has done) as some incredibly stunning looking fish could be created. Look at what intensive linebreeding has done for discus or asian arowanas, and imagine how different it would be if everyone was too scared to cross breed fish from different locations in various rivers for fear of "losing the purity" of the fish. IMO the purity has gone once you get past the first generation of captive breeding, so why not forget about it and start breeding some intensely colourful and stunning fish?

I know they're the experts, but I've never seen suck a heavily built tank of that size, and IMO its completely overkill. Theory and reality are often two different things, I've seen much larger tanks built from 10-12mm glass that have lasted for years.

If you look at the definition of the word "hybrid" you can actually apply it to any level of classification. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_(biology)

10mm all round seems to be pretty common for tanks that size. My 6x2.5x2' tank is made from 10mm. I think if its supported well it should be fine, maybe go for a thicker base if you intend on filling it up with a big pile of rocks...

Here's one of my *cough* models...

I do, in a 1:1 scale.....

Contribute to the economy; yes. Contribute to the hobby; no. Stores like the new Animates in Lunn Ave* which have half a dozen tanks and take the easy sales selling the common fish take money away from more specialist stores who take the risks stocking the rare/expensive/delicate fish, wider ranges of food and equipment and knowledgeable staff. That combined with tight "hobbyists" buying all their equipment from parallel importers on trademe who can undercut shop prices because they don't have the overheads of staff, a retail premises and all the costs associated with livestock (and then moaning because of the poor selection of fish or customer service at their lfs) will lead to a reduction in specialist stores, which will only be bad for the hobby. Its not just the aquarium hobby either, same thing happens in all the other hobbys I'm involved with. People buy bike parts from online websites (local and over-seas) and only visit their local bike shop to get their bike serviced, then moan when the shop goes out of business. People need to realise that there is more important things that price when deciding where to spend their money. I'm in the same boat as Caryl, I hardly ever compare prices and usually just go straight to HFF, they've looked after me for 10+ years and I want to make sure they're still in business in 10 years time. * not specifically taking a dig at animates, just using it as an example of a large store with minimal aquarium stocks.

Does the internet shop in Nelson sell fish/livestock?

You going to buy it Charlie? :roll:

HFF's steel stands get a big thumbsup from me, mine was about $550 for a 6'x2.5'x2' (810L) tank. Dead level, powdercoating looks good, delivery guy even helped me lift the tank onto the stand.

I think Barrak pretty much hit the nail on the head; I would have loved to see him try take the mike off Pink, she would have smacked him one!

Yes.

keen..

And I didn't think I could admire Paul Henry any more... :lol:

What do the cartridges cost to replace and what do they remove? Sounds a bit over-kill to me unless you've got a small tank with some really delicate inhabitants...

I was going to make a post here about a bulk purchase of Hikari products, but unfortunately there's rules against it so Henward and I just went halves....

^ agree, drill it first. You're a lot braver than I am making a tank that big!! The 200L tank will make a good sump, what are the dimensions? You'll need to add a tower for the bio media and for the mechanical filtration, and maybe make some sort of baffle for submerged media depending on how much room the pump(s) and heaters will take up. Here's a pic of how mine is set up; http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/ ... /Sump2.jpg

There recently was a discussion on retail and stupid customers on another forum I read, one person had a customer return an mp3 player because they didn't realise you needed a computer to load it. :-?

You could always get more loaches! If the loaches are your main interest then I'd recommend a sump over a canister. You'll be able to get a strong flow from end to end, and the turbulence will help oxygenate the water. Have you got the tank already or will you be getting it made?

Try reading the info on the tube, every one I've looked at either says "safe for aquarium use" or "not for aquarium use", and if it doesn't say either then assume its not safe.....

Online sites like that are cheaper because they don't deal in livestock (which is really what this hobby is all about), how about supporting your local LFS so when the time comes to buy some fish they're actually still in business.... The ideal filtration for your set up depends on what you're putting in the tank. Canisters would be better for a planted tank as there is less disturbance of the water, sump would be better for a heavily stocked set up as you can get a higher turn over and more bio media for a cheaper price.

For a 2.1m tank it should have more than 4 legs... Mine doesn't have feet, so the weight would be distributed over the joists. Pics here: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... p?t=237532

^ I guess you missed the thread where the OP is concerned about the weight of the tank on the floor... I'm with mystic, don't be a tight... and put your fish/tank/carpet etc at risk with a dodgy stand. If you've never built a stand before then you probably shouldn't be messing around learning how to do it with something that has to support ~800kg and distribute it evenly over the structure of your floor. The steel stand for my 800L 6' tank cost around $600 including powder coating and delivery, its dead level and plenty strong enough to support the weight. IMO its a small price to pay when I've invested over $2k in the set up (stand included) and have a similar value of fish in there. Go see Hollywood and see what it would cost to have one made for your tank.

Not really. You will need a stand designed to evenly distribute the weight of the tank over the floor joists, rather than putting it on a few points as a stand with feet does. Is the tank going to run across the joists or parallel to them?