Warren

I've had my planted discus tank at all sorts of temperatures over the years. Before I got the cooler going, in summer the tank often got to 32-33'C. 25 2kg Bags of ice later it was down to 29'C. Most of the plants were ok at 29-30'C, but most of the stem plants were a bit stunted and often the lower leaves would fall off. Dropping the temp to 28'C gave better results, but 26'C was the best. All the stem plants grow well and so do the Echinodorus plants. The discus are happy too. They still spawn on the plants regularly. The growth rate on most plants at least tripled at 26'C. Discus do not need to live at 30'C. In the wild they only reach these temperature for a short time. They live longer at lower temperatures. 26'C seem ok. Maybe someone else who keeps discus can offer their input too. Disclaimer: (Since it seems necessary to have one). This information is how I have good success and in no way reflects the way it should be done by others.

I'm currently working on a lighting article for the Aquarium World. In it is a formula for roughly calculating the watts required. Interestingly, it is not actually the watts that matter. It is the lumens and colour spectrum. If a lamp has a higher lumen value and the correct colour spectrum peaks, it is more effective. Therefore a less efficient lamp or one with a non ideal colour spectrum will need to have more watts. This however can lead to algae as the excess light in the incorrect colours can promote it. The relationship seems to be fairly closely related to surface area as seen in the link by Derek. However it can be seen that the general trend on the graph is flatter than the lines for watts/surface area. It seems that depth has some small bearing on the lumen requirement as water absorbes certain colours faster than others. So, watts required are approximately equal to lumen requirement/lumen output for the lamp. Lumen requirement is proportional the surface area x a depth adjustment. I will post the article to the fishroom 'articles section' after it is released in the Aquarium World.

I wonder why it wasn't culled out!

I had the same thing happen too. It even guarded the eggs from nothing (since it was the only fish in the tank) even after the eggs had fungus all over them.

Mine have nearly all lost their juvenile colours. I paid about $30.00 for each fish and bought all ten at once at about 50mm size. They now range from 100-140mm in size so are about 1/2 grown in length. All but 2 have lost their juvenile colours. I don't know how old they need to be to breed, but it took about 3 years from hatching for one of my friends Uara's to start pairing off. He had 12 Uara, and ended up with 4 pairs - lucky. It is best to keep Uara as a group, I wouldn't recommend getting just one.

Hi Benny, I have 10 Uara. All fairly young still. They are only about 1 year old. About 1/2 grown still. Will be trying to breed them when ready.

Good idea Cees. Are we going to be able to see who is reporting what, or is there a privacy issue involved. Maybe a tickbox could be added to the entry page if the person adding the species wishes to let other know they have it or not. That could solve any privacy issues. No rush, just when you have time...

Stop posting those photo's - I'm turning green!

Hi Bill, The plant isn't on the restricted list, but no-one seems interested in bringing it in. Heaps of TFS's have promised to get the plant for me, but to date every single one has been a slacker. I haven't checked the Aponogeton fenestralis, but the plant I've been after is the Aponogeton madagascariensis (could be the same plant). I wish we had happy days in NZ. Maybe of TFS and importers suffer from small country syndrome??!!

Cool Pics. I'd like to keep this plant myself, but there doesn't seem to be any in NZ. I've been waiting about 4 years for someone to import the plant but ... Have put my name down on the list for the plant at many fish shops in the country. Never had a reply - ever. Doesn't anyone want to sell it? Does anyone else know where to get this plant in NZ? Too hard to import some myself (and cost too much - don't want some that much!) especially once MAF gets in the way with quarantine regs. As Pegasus says, spill the beans, - how did you do it?

Someone else packing a sad now too. Obviously no one pays any attention to details in my posts. If you had you'd see my tanks are not overstocked. Had my earlier post been read properly, the comments just made by Pegasus are just a repeat of what I've already said. Who's scoring, - I don't care.

I've had enough, its like beating my head on a brick wall. This is my last reply to this topic.

Oh dear it just seems to go on and on... you just can't please some people! The tank in question has a lot more plants per litre than many other tanks. After looking at your tanks, I guess I've only got about 5-6 times the plant density you have. This also means I can stock more fish. On a less planted tank I would certainly keep less fish. Lets look at it in perspective. Sure I have what looks like a lot of fish in the tank, but when you consider that all the tetras and dwarf cichlids are about equal to one-one and a half adult discus then it doesn't seem so bad. Even Mr Takashi Amano himself stocks his tanks at similar levels (Refer to Nature Aquarium World Book 1 page 134-135 (1440L)). The mentioned tank has a very similar fish load, but way less plants than I have, - plus most are slow growing. His tanks also vary a lot in plant density and stocking level. I have all his books and have studied them well. All the cats and black line flying foxes serve to improve the quality of the other fish and plant waste so are therefore benificial. Before we start hacking off peoples legs, maybe we should look a little closer at the information first. I am successful and from the look of your tanks, so are you. We are both in a position to give good advice. We just have different tank styles is all. So, lets stop attacking each other and clogging up this thread, - and help others where we can.

Hmm... Java Fern.... Well, nevermind. Back to lightly stocked tanks. My tank is lightly stocked compared to many peoples tanks I've visited. Keep in mind also that I've got massive filtration running (6000L/hour) + 50% water changes weekly using modified RO water. Many tanks I've seen around the country have fish to volume ratio's much higher than this.

Hi David, Looks like pretty lightly loaded tanks to me. In my 300gal (approx 1200L) I have the following: 16 Adult Discus (120-180mm) 24 Black Line Flying Fox (good algae munchers!) 500 Neons 100 Cardinals 50 Corydoras 50 Silvertip Tetras 20 Rams 20 Cerviceps 0 Shrimp 0 Otos Give or take a few as most of these fish are over 2 years old. This is about the maximum stocking level I can run before the plants cannot out-compete the algae. My statement about a small fish load still stands. I've seen this many fish in a 75gal (300L) tank! Needles to say it had no plants. I asked the owner if they had considerred plants but they said they could not get them to grow faster than the algae... I wonder why. Many people put too many fish into a tank. They do get away with it and the fish are happy, but no plants. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this, just that there are too many fish to successfully grow plants.

Hi David, I've had a look at your tanks on your site. You don't seem to have many fish in your tanks. Is your statement based on the fish load in your tanks or in general. My fish load looks about 10x what you have in your tanks with the same results in the plants. My statement is based off people who put 10 oscars or similar sized fish into a 300L Tank. The plants cannot keep up with this many fish.

I do in fact have most of my original plants. Because I have an Amazon Biotope, most of the plants are of the Echinodorus species. Nearly all of these plants have rhizomes of one form or another. It is very possible for all these plants to be original. Likewise with crypts. It is only stem plants that will not be original as they grow so very fast (2-4 inches a day). Like wise, I have all my original Aponogeton's as this plant has a bulb. Every 6 months or so the plant will shed all its leaves. I then winter the bulb in a separate cooler tank, and return it back to the main tank approx 3 months later where it suddenly bursts back into life. I'm not talking about the leaves, only the main part of the plant. So I do in fact have most of my original plants, sorry Pegasus, good try. Hypothetically, how long does a plant live, - as long as you supply its needs. The problem is, most plants don't get a fair chance and disappear with 6 months or so. In an aquarium where they can thrive, it need not be so. I still argue the point however, that if you have kept plants successfully and had them grow well, there was a reason for it. That reason is because the conditions were right for growing the plants whether you knew it or not. In essence, you had a setup that gave results very similar to what I have. You probably came up with a method or routine that worked. However, it would have been guesswork or luck that got it there. Well, now the guesswork is gone. There is a formula for success and it does have quite a bit of tolerance. So if you want to grow plants successfully or at least have them hold their own (so your aquarium stays looking nice), read the Sears Conlin report. It will give you the basics and guide you down the correct path.

Its the smashing thats the fun part. You have to able to play with your food!

Hmm... Seem to have stirred up a hornets nest. Well, at least it got some of you thinking. I only have one last addition. How many of you still have most of the original plants you started with. I still have most of the plants I originally purchased over 6 years ago?

I take it your pH is low and you want to raise it. You can add Baking Soda (Sodium bicarbonate) to raise the pH and KH. Only add a small amount at a time. If your pH keeps falling it could be due to something in the tank, - maybe a log releasing humic acids... Best pH for breeding Dwarf South American Cichlids is 6.5-7.0. I've bred heaps in this pH. Their natural pH in the wild is usually from 5.5-7.0 (Amazon River and Tributaries).

Hi Ira, I've had rocks that behave similarly for the first hour or so. It has never been a problem yet. All I've done is check the pH every 6 hours or so for the first couple of days just to make sure all is ok.

I agree, you did do it without some of the fancy gear, but the basics were the same. It would have been primarily setup as a planted tank. However, unless your tanks look like Takashi Amano's Nature Aquarium World setups... If you can maintain a tank that looks like this for a number of years then its because the focus was on the plants. Sure some people fluke a combination that works, but the Sears Conlin method works guaranteed. If you get the right balance, it is because you have focussed on the correct conditions for the plants. If the balance is right, the plants can be shifted and will grow well even if the water conditions are not quite identical. Look at plants as if they were a fish. All fish have certain pH, Temperature and Hardness requirements that are different from each other. In nature, virtually all plants have nearly identical basic water parameters. Bottom Line, no arguments: If you grow or grew aquatic plants well, it is because the water conditions were right. You may not have known why, but it is guaranteed that it is because of the reasons set down in the Sears Conlin report. Technology like CO2, and Hi-tech fertilisers just help keep the balance more easily by supplying the plants just what they need. Therefore to answer your original question: Yes it is possible to move the plant, but it will only move successfully if it is put into conditions that are optimal for it (see above).

If plants are taken out of the environment they are happy in and put into a normal tank, they will not do well. It is a sad fact (well proven by many people) that plants require certain conditons that are not present in most aquariums. Its like this: You have an aquarium dedicated to growing plants with a good balance of fish, or you don't have plants. You can try to add plants to a normal aquarium, but they will enevitably end up looking tatty and algae covered. There is a reason that the plants are reared under intensive growing conditions with fertilisers, CO2 etc and its because its what they need to survive. Anything less and they will not outcompete the algae, or slowly fade away.

Its late, go to sleep! Just for reference; To date, the Sears Conlin report is about the best information available to people to describe an almost foolproof method of keeping a planted tank. I recommend it. I've used it to set up nearly a dozen tanks and all started up and continued to work really well. If you are struggling to keep your plants happy, give it a go. Also if you have a big tank it will save you lots (and lots) on fertilisers.

I've been using a very similar fertiliser based off the Sears Conlin recepie. It works really well and is very cheap. It does not contribute at all to the problems Ira is having. If anything it will improve the situation. I've never had trouble in my planted tank, and it looks great. Anyone who's seen it will probably agree.