graeme Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 i have a 5' planted discus tank with a layer of potting mix then two of gravel, and i have recently discovered a green slimy jelly looking fungii growing mainly on the gravel and on alot of the plants. i have tried removing it (infected gravel and leaves) but the problem still remains. two weeks ago i emptied out the tank completely and replaced it with just gravel, and the problem has started to come back. a friend of mine has told me it might be one of a few problems. e.g. - something in the potting mix (which is proved wrong, as there is none in there anymore) -lack of nutrience, or something along those lines. i have the lights on 10hrs per day if anyone can help me, it would be MUCH appretiated. any comments or guesses on what the problem is or how to fix it would also be great. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Perhaps you could provide some more info, I have my suspicions of what it is but want to make sure first. Is this algae a dark blue/green colour with a musty sort of odour and just seems to form a sheet/film over everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peety Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 How old is your tank? Is filter run in? ie have you allowed nitrifying bacteria time to build up? If you can afford one a UV filter should fix any algae probs. What are your nitrate/nitrite readings? SAE's will help but bristlenose / all plecos do jump on discus and suck their slime coat. Do you do daily WC's ? Hate to say it but if you get the potting mix back in your plants will grow faster and soak up that excess waste... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamish Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Yes rob it is a dark green looking and forms a sheet type look over everything (greame's neighbour) and bristlenose's dont touch it, he put some large ones in the first time it appeared and the problem still remained after four to six weeks+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Are you thinking 'cyanobacteria' too Rob? If you have this blue/green algae it is very difficult to get rid of. I am fighting it myself. Erythromycin is the answer but hard to get. I am lucky I work for a doctor so am able to get it when required. Somewhere in this forum is a question from me about this algae and the answer had the amount of Erythromycin required per litre. Can't remember it off-hand sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Its easy to get rid of. It only exists under 2 conditions. 1. Too much phosphate and no nitrates. 2. Too much phosphate and lots of nitrates (>30ppm). Once phosphate levels are below 0.25ppm and nitrates sit between 5-10ppm it disappears in 2-3 days. So will most other forms of algae. It's most common in new tanks where there are no nitrates and a lot of phosphate from the tap water. Hastings has lots of phosphate in the tap water (3-8ppm depending on location). The bacteria have the ability to Nitrogen lock, that is extract the dissolved nitrogen out of the water. When the correct nitrate level is reached and the phosphates are reduced the bacteria seems to lose its ability to N lock. When there are excess nitrates and high phosphate both types of food are readily available. Maybe with just the correct nitrate level it cannot change mode and sits dormant. CO² helps speed up the process in a planted tank but its not usually needed. As a tank ages nitrates build up. The trick to algae free tanks is to keep both nitrates and phosphates under control. There are 3 methods. 1. Ignore P and N and use a grunty UV steriliser. 2. Do regular large water-changes with N and P free water to keep both N and P diluted. 3. Keep a heavily planted tank that uses up the P and N faster than it is produced by fish waste. If one of these method is used it guarantees and algae free tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Are you thinking 'cyanobacteria' too Rob? If you have this blue/green algae it is very difficult to get rid of. I am fighting it myself. Erythromycin is the answer but hard to get. I am lucky I work for a doctor so am able to get it when required. Somewhere in this forum is a question from me about this algae and the answer had the amount of Erythromycin required per litre. Can't remember it off-hand sorry. Erythromycin works great but it kills your filter bacteria. So often what happens next is no nitrates followed by cyno again... Also you have to re-cycle the tank, - watch out for ammonia and nitrite spikes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 I forgot to say I removed the plants from the tank and treated them separately, I didn't treat the tank itself. I am sure your way is better Warren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Yip - I was thinking blue/green algae (cyanobacter). It can be annoying, especially as nothing eats it and it will cover everything. Caryl and Warren have both offered suggestions as to how to get rid of it. Caryl with the shorter term fix and Warren the more holistic approach. I would also add the following shorter term fixes as possibilities. 1. Total exclusion of light from the tank for about 3 days (When I tried this I wrapped a couple of heavy towels around the tank - worked OK, you may need to check the filter during this period as I found the dead algae would slough off and clog the filter. Also found that there would be a few bits that survived that required a follow up treatment after about 5 days). 2. Use one of the algae blocks from the fish shop (a block of white material, divided into six similar to a block of chocolate). This worked really well (it seems that the blue/green is particularly suceptible to it) but a word of warning - it is pretty hard on particular plants: vallisneria, ambulia, cabomba (I suspect that a few of the other stem/bunch type would be it) it didn't seem to knock sword plants or crypts though. Since the blue green does seem to be so suceptible you may get away with a lower dose that wouldn't have such a drastic affect on the plants). I would still suggest you heed Warrens suggestions though as you don't want it reoccuring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Funny that this thread should pop up now. I think I've got some showing up in my tank too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilo Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Hydrogen Peroxide will kill it fast. Just fill a syringe (no needle) or pipette with with it and squirt a small amount directly onto the B/G algae. Safe for the fish, plants and filter bacteria since it breaks down before it can spread around the tank. I used Jif Oxy-Gel from the supermarket watered down 50:50. But as Warren pointed out it is better to cure the cause then the symptom otherwise it will keep coming back. Antibiotics and algae killers will destroy it but the spores are in the air so after a few weeks it will start off again unless the nutrient parameters change to make the tank unsuitable for cyanobacter growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nooboon Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Just a question for Warren. Where do you learn all of this info? I mean, I know keeping N and P levels low discourages algae growth but you know all the specific values etc. Is there a secret book(s) I can get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nooboon Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 I currently also have a bit of an algae problem. I have very short, dark green algae growing on the older leaves of my plants. It isn't running rampant or anything but is annoying becase if I pull these leaves off my plants the lower stems end up bare. I have no CO2 system but do use ferts (N & P free) and quite a lot of lighting. However growth is not spectacular. Today: N = 5ppm P < 0.25 though I did a 10% water change 2 days ago, so values may have been a bit higher before that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajbroome Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Nooboon said... > I have very short, dark green algae growing on the older > leaves of my plants. Does it look like the last photo here: http://www.floridadriftwood.com/algae_i ... ation.html if so, it's probably the dreaded 'black beard/brush algae'. Seems to be a problem when there are an excess of phosphates, from what I've read. There is much info about it in various aquaria sites, such as: http://www.manateemiddle.org/pollutions ... page23.htm The best critter to eat it is the Siamese Algae Eater (SAE) which are obtainable from time to time. There are some fish that look similar but are less effective, have a look at my SAEs on Sunday. Andrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 I agree too, SAE's are excellent at stopping brush algae. They will not however eat any algae that is visible. First you have to remove all the leaves with the algae on them, then immediately put in SAE's. They only eat the very soft fluffy stage of the algae, before it becomes visible. You will need about 1 per 50-100 Liter’s of tank depending on how heavily planted it is. In reply to Nooboon, I have read lots. A lot came off the net too. I've actually read so much about growing plants / controlling algae that most of the time I don't remember where I read it. I don't usually give advise unless I know it works by testing it myself. If I haven't tested it I'll normally say so. I've helped a lot of people set up planted tanks and a lot of people with algae problems. I try to make contact after helping them to see how they are going. This way I learn if what I told then worked. I am lucky to have a healthy interest in Chemistry and Physics. These help a lot in understanding what is happening inside your tank. The actual values stated are learned from the experience mentioned above. They are not 100% foolproof, but they almost always work. I also just like helping people… A really good start for anyone wanting to control algae is 'the often mentioned' Sears/Conlin Report. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilize ... onlin.html It's only one of many ways to control algae and as I've mentioned before, - it always works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nooboon Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 Thanks guys. Andrew, I'll bring along a sample of the algae to your place today. I have had a SAE in the past but it was being picked in by my Chinese algae eater (which are known for aggression, I would never have one now) so I traded them both in (the SAE was not the most pretty fish ever anyway) at Wet Pets. They didn't know what the SAE was and didn't believe my identification. Now I wish I had kept the SAE. Warren, perhaps you can help me when I set up my planted tank in the future. I'm planning a tank about 1000L or so with all of the flash equipment but I have to finish up at Uni and get a job to pay for it all first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted August 10, 2003 Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 No worries, it will be an excellent size tank for planting. Chinese algae eaters can be a bit nasty at times. You certainly do not keep them with Discus as they suck their sides. They can even eventually kill the Discus. I've found they are not even that great at munching algae anyway. The SAE's are much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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