PENEJANE Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Hey there Saltys I would like to know the ins and outs of building a chiller for a cold water marine tank. I am looking at using my 2ft that I have my guppies in but before I let my guppies go I would like to know more info on this. My husband is a plumber so somethings we will be able to do cheaper. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Unless he can get Titanium coil its pretty near impossible, how many litres do u need to chill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted December 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 The tank is a 2ft 60Lx30Dx50H (cms) which is about 90ltrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 isn't there away to convert a Dehumidifier into one sure i read that somewhere??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostface Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 prob not that difficult, however it may be cheaper just to buy one given the size of your tank. basically you would need a titanium coil with cooling fins / titanium radiator(cant use stainless or alloy), a temparature triggered switch, all required plumbing, a fan to blow over the coil and a pump to feed it. one thing is for sure you will definately need a chiller of some sort. michael at pet planet, among others, sells them http://www.petplanet.co.nz/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 isn't there away to convert a Dehumidifier into one sure i read that somewhere??? It's more than likely that it won't have enough cooling capacity to get the job done properly. Even with Ti coils. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted December 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Why does it have to be Ti? We were looking into using a normal filter (the one that I have) and using a clear piece of pipe that runs into a box which is cooled by a large heatsink and computer fan then back into the tank. We were going to try this with a heater in the tank set at its lowest temp and seeing if we can find a good steady temp that way but I don't know how well that will work as of yet. For a cold water marine tank I cant' afford $700 for a chiller. That would get me 4 2ft tanks!! haha As I said I was just wanting to know the ins and outs of it and if anyone has tried making one of their own and how well did it work. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 but hes a plumber he makes that in half a days work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 There are a lot of ways you could make a chiller that will work, but not necessarily very effectively. You don't NEED titanium coils unless they're actually going to be in contact with the saltwater, then they corrode. You could use plastic tubing, but that loses a bit of efficiency. Probably the simplest way is a fan on the sump or main tank and replacing the evaporation constantly. But that's only good for a relatively small temperature difference. There's the option of buried hoses deep in your yard, that may get the difference you need, but after everything would probably be as much as a commercial chiller. There's the fridge with hoses coiled up inside it, again, doesn't really have the capacity for a coldwater tank over the summer. Maybe if it was a really big fridge... I'm probably one of the cheapest people around here but I'd say if you're going for a coldwater marine instead of looking to keep a tropical from getting too hot, just buy a chiller. It'll work far better and probably be more reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 try thr diy section Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 I recall seeing one years ago and I am sure it used the cooling unit from a small fridge and the coils were attatched to a good quality stainless steel plate and the water was pumped up and ran down over the plate. I was impressed because he had a baby octopus in there. I have kept cold water marines for quite a while without a cooler and they were OK until we got some very hot weather in the summer. I was keeping fish taken from rock pools which were a lot warmer than the ocean, so it would depend a lot on the type of fish you were keeping. I don't know the names but I had 25 different types of fish from Kaikoura. I found the hardest thing was transporting them and they usually had to be treated with copper on arrival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted December 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 ok I was wondering what temp am I looking to keep the tank at? Just so I know what my goal is. Also what sort of filters are best with cold water marine as my husband pointed out about curosion (excuse spelling) of most metal parts like the ballbearings for the motor. I have heard many people use undergravel. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 about 10 years ago udergravel might have been the norm but skimmers have now become the mainstream form of filtration, (wether it be for temperate of tropical waters) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 ok I was wondering what temp am I looking to keep the tank at? Just so I know what my goal is. Also what sort of filters are best with cold water marine as my husband pointed out about curosion (excuse spelling) of most metal parts like the ballbearings for the motor. I have heard many people use undergravel. Cheers Very few pumps or filters have metal parts that are exposed to the water. The few bits that are stainless steel like screws and impeller shafts on cheap powerheads. Almost no motors have ballbearings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 The temp you are aiming at is 16 degrees, depending on what you are keeping. A warning about using a fridge cooling system - they do not normally have the grunt to keep a tank cool, no matter how cleverly you can convert it's cooling power to your tank. A fish tank chiller even the bottom line ones, can turn out many multiples more "cold", than a fridge. If economy is a factor, try a fan or two from the Warehouse pointed at the water surface you'll be surprised what they can do. You'll have to top up more though to make up for the extra evaporation. An undergravel filter is not such a good idea in a marine tank, and nor is the use of any other form of aerobic only biological filtration such as a cannister, because the whole idea is to circulate aerated water through the media to allow the bacteria to process the waste. The problem with this is that to process nitrate, anearobic bacteria are needed and these function poorly in a cannister or undergravel filter. What people use now is liverock. It is porous, and houses bacteria on and near the surface that do aerobic processing, and also deeper inside it houses anearobic bacteria for the important nitrate reduction. Liverock is simple, you just stick it in the tank & let it do it's job, once it's had 6 weeks or so to get it's bacteria population established. The tank also needs good water circulation to keep the water moving around the liverock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted December 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 ok silly question here but what does live rock look like? Can you get it from the beach or can you only get it from the LFS? If I can get it from a beach (mainly Bluff or Riverton) what do I look for? I am looking into a kinda rock pool sort of thing as it is only a 2ft tank but it is taller than the normal (50cm) so I am hoping that it will handle a little fluxuation in water temps even though we are going to try a fan and computer heatsink and plastic tubing to cool the water. But this is going to be put on a timer to maintain the lower temps required. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Live rock is basically dead coral skeletons from reefs that is incredibly porus. It has lots of cracks and crevaces aswell. As I found out you cant find it here unless you buy it from the shops. Base rock is more easily available and you have to make it live - by putting it in someones tank or as this is for a cold water tank I would put it in the sea. I have made my own base rock, which was quite fun and ridiculously cheap and is livening up in the sea as we speak Real base rock (ie from a reef) costs about $10 -$15 a kg, and real live rock costs about $15- $20 I think. You can get some good deals though. "1 and 1.5 lbs of live rock per gallon of water" Which is about 0.12kg - 0.18kg per litre. (If I have done my math properly?) Which is about 7kg - 10.5 kg of live rock needed for a 2ft*1ft*1ft 56L tank. As for me I couldnt afford to go with the real stuff. This is the thread for the "recipe" I used. http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/what-c ... t9368.html I will try to get some pics of how it went, I was quite happy, would have liked to make a bit more as I only did one batch that was a little too brittle for my liking, but still acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 PeneJane What Feelers said is correct however he is on a student budget. If you can afford around eighty bucks that will buy you the 7-8 kg of liverock you would need for your tank. Best plan is buy it dry and "dead". You then have to "cure" it, which basically means getting a bacterial population established in it. To do this you leave it in salt water for 6 weeks. Just leaving it in a bucket will not do, it has to be in a tank with circulation, or a rock pool at the beach. At first the rock, even though it looks clean, will release ammonia and other nasties, so the curing has to be completed before it can go in a tank with fish, etc. It's a good idea to get a nitrite and nitrate test kit so you can monitor when the rock is cured. The way to tell is as follows, if the rock is in a tank. The rock will release ammonia into the water, and will gradually become populated by ammonia eating bacteria. So you will see ammonia build up in the water for a week or two, and then decline as the bacteria get established that eat it. These bacteria turn the ammonia into nitrite, which will allow a population of nitrite eating bacteria to become established. These bacteria turn the nitrite into nitrate, which will allow a population of nitrate eating bacteria to get established. So if you have a test kit for nitrate, once you see nitrate in the water, you know the bacteria are established that eat ammonia and nitrite. Once nitrite is down to zero, you can start putting livestock in. Some nitrate is OK, it can take several months for the nitrate eating bacteria to really kick in. In the mean time, you can reduce it with some large (50%) water changes. In addition to the liverock, you can also put normal rocks in from the beach, to make the tank interesting with all the growth etc on them. This may all sound complicated, but actually it's quite simple, remember it would also sound complicated to a freshwater beginner, if someone explained to them how a cannister worked, but once you do it, it's very simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 So does anyone know anyone who has actually used an old air con unit and converted it into a chiller? I am toying with the idea, over buying a chiller. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/He ... 134028.htm Would this be an acceptable starting point? Does the math make sense? Does anyone know how much of a hassel it is to get the Ti tubing and put it in place? It would be a nice project - and I'm thinking(although not sure) that it would be able to cool alot more than a chiller of similar pricing. And lastly would it eat through power? I was assuming that it wouldnt use much power as it would be off most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted December 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Apparently according to my LFS in about 3 weeks they are getting these new chillers in which are only 1/3 of the normal price. So your looking at about $150-$200 for a chiller. So when I find out more about these I will let you all know. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Im very keen to hear about this , Did they comment on the brand name or cooling capacity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted December 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 No they didn't. But I will be going back and finding out more about them. I will let you all know brand names and specs and stuff as soon as I find them out also Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 I'm actually trying to find out what we can get gas/water exghanges at so i'll keep you informed if you like feelers hopefully they've got something we can use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Hey awesome! Cheers both of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 wow sounds good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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