peety Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 I am getting really frustrated with 1) my fish getting sick and 2) no vet caring about 1).!!!! All vets suck!!! Its not a matter of whether they know how to fix the fish it also matters that they keep a $5 medication on their shelves. Anyone know of a vet in AK that can be Abreviated Obsenity Removed Moderator Or anyone want to buy a couple of dead fish ?? (I just want to get the meds that will fix my fish ... an ignorant vet means nothing but a $25 bottle of wine) tired peety Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Good luck finding a vet that will have anything to do with fish. Vets won't have anything to do with your pet unless it's a cat, dog or maybe if you're lucky a rabbit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayhi2steve Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 No vet cares about fish or any other people for that matter besides us lot that come here. If I say at work that one of my fish died I usally get " Its only a fish get over it " of some lame remark like that. And also if you get excited telling people about whats happening in your tank they look at you as if your a nutcase. In short don't think anyone but hobbists such as ourselves give a rats ass about fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cat Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 I understand other people thinking we are nuts getting excited over fish. Unless they have the pleasure of looking at beautiful tank and appreciating the effort involved then they will remain ignorant etc. Thats ok with me too. I think people that play golf are nuts so I guess we are even. :lol: Regarding the vet thing. I dont even bother going to see any vets. There is this wealth of knowledge on here with people more than willing to help and give advice. Then I all need to do is go and get what ever medication I need from LFS or even other club members (Palmerston North Club rules!! ). Why bother with people (vets) that dont deal with fish everyday allday etc. They are not their 'bread and butter' type cases so unless you happen to come across a fish keeping vet **ducked for the flying pig** they probably have no idea what sort of illness is what! Hence why this forum is excellent. And unless you live along way from anywhere I am sure there is a club close by with a club member that could look at the problem or you could take the fish to them. Just my two cents (plus GST) worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peety Posted February 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 I will definately be at the next local fish club meet, but still upset that even when I know what will cure my fish i.e. a hex treatment, or anti biotics, the vet can't give me meds due to his own ignorance. I just get replies like "i don't know anything about fish so can't sell you the meds you require" CRAP. I say my fish is sick he says "its swimming, lively aint it?' Bloody thing has both fins clamped and darting around like a maniac!! True, I don't understand golf either..... And yes I do get excited about my fish..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumotel Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 the other day I rang up an animal clinic for a question, and the receptionist literally knew more than the vet. The vet was *clueless*. She was even kind enough to offer assistance any way she could. Obviously she was a fish-keeper Yeppers, greater majority of vets are in the sux dept fishwise. I know it's frustrating, and funnily enough I called the vet's with a med query too. They are *so* not in the know about fish. Anyways, I agree with Cat though. Forums, especially friendly ones like this, and fish clubs help out way more than an ignorant vet would ever be capable of. Du Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 We occasionally get Wayne here who is a vet and as helped with many problems. Symptoms you describe. The fins stay folded, the fish swims restlessly around, and often scrapes against objects... erratic dashing around. More than likely the fish has skin parasites, or possibly ammonia probs, eg: damaged gills, but sounds like parasites. Don't know if it's a marine or not. Treat with: Parinox -or- De-Los -or- Copper Sulfate -or- Potassium Permanganate -or- Chloramine-T. The latter three should be available in one form or another from your LFS, and should have the dosage on. Chemists are sometimes helpful if you explain the situation to them. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajbroome Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Cat said... > ... unless you happen to come across a fish keeping vet > **ducked for the flying pig** they probably have no idea > what sort of illness is what! We used to have a good fishkeeping vet here in PN. He had one of the better fishrooms I've seen and bred a lot of species, sadly (for us) he now lives in Australia (at least around Noosa was where I last heard of him living). Many vets just plain don't know about fish ("fish aren't pets, fish are what pets eat" to paraphrase ) and most people aren't prepared to pay the kinds of money that typical cat or dog owners are for a diagnoses and treatment, that may or may not work. Peety said... > ... when I know what will cure my fish i.e. a hex treatment, > or anti biotics, the vet can't give me meds due to his own > ignorance. I just get replies like "i don't know anything about > fish so can't sell you the meds you require" CRAP. I'm completely in favour of vets (and Drs) tightly controlling the distribution of anti-biotics. There is far too much mis-use of these powerful chemicals in the world and I don't think it should be added to lightly. Sometimes, if you have a 'tame' vet (ie one you've built up a long term relationship with) then you can the appropriate drugs easier. Another way of looking at it is, what are we doing to allow our fish to get sick? Many illnesses can be avoided by careful quarantine and maintenance of good water quality. Fish generally have good immune systems and can fight off most ailments if they're in a good environment and well fed. Pegasus said... > ... The fins stay folded, the fish swims restlessly around, and > often scrapes against objects... erratic dashing around. > More than likely the fish has skin parasites, or possibly > ammonia probs, eg: damaged gills, but sounds like parasites. If these are the symptoms then (without seeing the fish) I agree that it's likely that your fish has some sort of external parasite. I'd suggest 'whitespot' which you should be able to see or perhaps 'velvet' which can be more tricky to spot (no pun intended) and is therefore, IMHO, more dangerous. Salt can be used against both, in freshwater fish. There are plenty of resources available on the internet which will suggest alternative treatments as well. Just my thoughts. Andrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joze Posted February 21, 2003 Report Share Posted February 21, 2003 while on the subject of vets.......... I struck a clueless one. My dog got sick, usual viral infection, lowered blood pressure, temp, allevated heartbeat, lethargic, not eating etc. Took her down to the closest vet as she was very sick with sudden onset, told the vet what the symptoms were, mentioned her blood pressure was down as well. Without a lie the vet said "how do you know that, you arent supposed to know that". Then tried to tell me that the dog needed a series of blood tests at $130 each. Oh yeah and accused me of starving the dog (fussy red setter off her food). No mention of a course of antibiotics first. I walked out then and refuse to pay the bill. Went to our usual vet, told him what was happening and I was treated as a human being, not some moron with a pussy. I discovered a few more things about our vet (we are pretty new to the area), he is willing to admit when he doesnt know, will ask questions and regards treatment as a combined plan of action. I have worked with a large number of vets over the years, and on animals valued in the hundreds of thousands to millions mark. I dont need some moron vet treating me as if I am stupid, she also tried to blind me with science and didnt get the hint when I talked "shop" at her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peety Posted February 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2003 My fish have been sick for a while now, even had a post mortem done 2 months back, I thought they had come right but then disaster, back where I started. I have sacrificed one to the lab to try and get some more results back.... Its not that I'm not trying, I've been through 4 courses of meds so far !!!! Fish in question are discus (sigh)... it all came in on a non quarantined fish, yep my fault :oops: It looks like that mythical thing called discus plague. (I'll know soon hopefully hope many bugs i'm fighting but even the vet doesn't hold much chance of everything showing up because the labs don't work on fish) I'm not guessing entirely about the illnesses, only getting a feeling for what is working better than other treatments. I watch the fish every day, the vet doesn't. If I think anti-biotics are working then I want a bunch of em!! O well thanks for listening.... Back to the tank..... :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted February 22, 2003 Report Share Posted February 22, 2003 We seem in a sense to be running our vets down in a way, but we have to look at it from their point of view also. Usually anything on "legs" they can attempt to treat, but this is not always the case either, as you would be hard pressed to find a city vet that could treat say a cow with milk fever, or a pig with mastitis. Facing a Poodle with a stomach upset is one thing, but facing a 300kg boar or sow is a different matter, and they usually give me the antibots to inject, rather than risk losing a few fingers, or legs These people spend many years of dedicated study to get where they are, and usually specialize in certain fields, much like our own doctors specialize in certain fields, and you wouldn't want your local GP doing a triple heart bypass The point Andrew made about vets being cautious about the release of drugs is one point. We are pretty "well in" with our local vet, and in the past they have on occasions supplied us certain antibiotics for our various stock needs and such, and again as Andrew points out, "Being known to them" is a benefit, but I fully agree that vets should be very wary about whom they supply drugs to. As the heading implies, "The Hypocratic Oath"... I'm sure in there somewhere there would be referernce to the distribution of controlled substances. Diagnosing fish ailments is not easy at the best of times, as there are so many permatations if the disease is an "unseen" one, such as a virus or a parasitic ailment. We reach our conclusions by "visual symptoms" like the above, but again there are so many variations of what it "could be" that perfecting the correct cure is not always easy, and one can't "really" blame the local vet for not being conversant enough in the field of Ichthyology. As above, knowing the problem and eradicating the problem is not the problem in most cases, but getting the correct drugs to treat that problem usually is, and even then we may find some unknown brand name that is only available in certain countries. Bill (Pegasus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 22, 2003 Report Share Posted February 22, 2003 Excellent points Pegasus. You must also remember, we have a major problem with bacteria becoming immune to antibiotics through overuse, or misuse. I am pleased to hear vets are not handing them out readily, although I understand your frustration Peety. Sometimes a chemist will be willing to give you a very small amount of drug, if you tell him what you need it for and how you are going to use it. Overseas they have a problem with people buying over-the-counter animal remedies to use on themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peety Posted February 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2003 Haven't had to try them on myself yet, my slime coat is just fine, and apart from being green behind the gills sometimes, and being kicked out the of the breeding tank for forgeting a birthday or two I'll stick to common bottleshop remedies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted February 23, 2003 Report Share Posted February 23, 2003 Before we get too much further down the track of rubbishing all the Vets in NZ because they know little or nothing about fish disease, lets look at things in perspective (further to Bill’s comments). Most Fishkeepers in NZ don’t recognise their fish are sick until too late. Maybe not so for many people here in the fishroom, but certainly nationwide. Did you know that approximately 14% of households in NZ keep fish. I do not know the margin of error on the 14%, but who cares, it still means there are a heck of a lot. Working off approximately 4 people per household, we have some 750,000 houses, which means some 105000 Fishkeepers. Our current FNZAS membership is approx 250. We have just over 200 members on this web site. We represent a very small percentage of the Fishkeepers in this country. We are also a very small country. Many overseas cities have larger populations than our whole country. I’ve previously discussed our topic problem with several local Vets. There response is pretty unanimous. For the population of this country, for the number of people who recognise their fish are sick before it is too late, for the number of people who are prepared to bring their fish to the Vet in a bag and for the number of people who are prepared to pay the bill, it is just not worth knowing anything about fish. You will find that many Vets are quite knowledgable about how fish work inside, but because they have little or no experience with them they cannot diagnose sick fish. To correctly diagnose a sick fish you must have seen the symptoms before. Good books can offer a description of different diseases, but it still take a bit of experience to correctly identify most problems. In many cases a disease must be diagnosed and action taken very quickly or it is too late. The local vets get only about a dozen enquires about how to treat sick fish where the person will actually bring the fish in. In most cases the act of moving the fish causes too much stress. You cannot just clip on a lead or put it in a crate at take it along. Are you prepared to pay the cost of a house call for you fish that cost $10.00. Basically it boils down to; It is not worth the Vets spending the huge time and commitment to learning all that is known to treat all fish due to the number of fish that people will call for help on. You may have kept fish for 10 years plus and have a huge wealth of knowledge. Well this is what the Vet must also do if they wish to know all about fish too. We have a huge resource right here. If you can accurately describe the disease, the conditions in the tank and the events leading up to the time you noticed the sick fish, there will be someone right here who can help. There is a very good book I use regularly to identify problems. It is called ‘Discus Health’. While it is specifically for Discus, it does cover many diseases and symptoms that are common to most fish. It also lists treatments and medication and shows the active ingredients used and the dose rate. From this it is possible to work out alternative medications that are available at the Vet or Chemist. If you work on creating a relationship with a local Vet then you have a good start towards finding a solution to a sickness. There are also some excellent fish shops around who can help you with fish disease. Jansens, Hollywoods and Redwood Aquatics are some of the best. If you speak to the right person you will find a good answer. I’ve had help from all of these identifying a problem. They may not have had a treatment available directly, but through my local Vet and Pharmacy, we found a solution in most cases. That’s not to say it guarantees success, but its better than nothing. If you are truly concerned about your fishes health, you will find a solution, not just give up after trying the first place you think of. Nothing is impossible to those who are prepared to keep looking. So lets stop giving our Vets a hard time. They do have good knowledge in most cases, but will need a little help with the diagnosis and prescription. The end… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peety Posted February 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2003 Me again..... My first post was not a lack of knowledge on the vets part but a lack of sympathy. If I owned a Skoda and there were no mechanics to fix a skoda, I would be frustrated when it broke down and be frustrated with the lack of mechanics.... fair call But another mechanic would try and listen and help (its in their best interest and good for my soul) A vet isn't bad because he can't fix my fish he's satan himself because he won't spend five minutes thinking out a solution with me. I got told they won't buy in the meds I want from one vet because the minimum order would leave product on the shelf. (I suggested I would buy the lot). I'm not saying they should be saints, I am saying they took on a profession that is supposed to heal, if not my fish, then my spirit. I agree they can't learn everything but they could try compassion.... (still watchin those tanks ) peety Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted February 23, 2003 Report Share Posted February 23, 2003 It is sad you got such a response. Maybe the Vet was having a bad day. Still no excuse, but haven't we all had bad days? Maybe what is required is getting the Vet on your side first. Using your analogy however, if I couldn't find a Skoda mechanic, I'd either find a manual and fix it myself or find another mechanic and work with them to get a solution. Maybe give the Vet another chance. If they still have an unsatisfactory response, go somewhere else. Good luck with your future Vet hunting. Also, why not try the fishroom first. You would probably get a faster response from here anyway, especially if you do not live in a main center where there are LFS that have more experience (generalised comment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 23, 2003 Report Share Posted February 23, 2003 A book I have found helpful is Handbook of Fish Diseases by Dieter Untergasser. It is a TFH publication (TS-123) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted February 23, 2003 Report Share Posted February 23, 2003 My book 'Discus Health' is also by him. It has 400 very useful pages and excelent details including colour photos of diseased fish and microscope pictures of bacteria, pathogens and worms. It is brilliant for identifying all the nasty critters that bother our fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peety Posted February 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2003 I agree, and thanks. I'll be book buying this week, and I've been checking t&e for microscopes for the last 2 weeks (missed a goody ). The ones in the shops are really dear !!! I'm also really interested in seeing the full post mortem report since it may be something I can get arranged myself anyway. Yep it looks like that Skoda is going to get a full overhaul this week afterall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted February 24, 2003 Report Share Posted February 24, 2003 Small hint for post mortem on a fish. If it has been dead for more than 1 hour when you find it, then it may be useless. Many external organisms immediately exit the host when it dies. The internal organs begin to deteriorate (liquify) very quickly also. Many of the internal membranes deteriorate even before the fish dies as this is often the cause of death - internal bleeding. It is important to deal to the dead fish as soon as possible. Worms etc are seldom fatal if the diagnosis is made early enough. Worms are easy to identify by grabing some faceas and putting on a slide. 20-100x magnification is all that is needed. Good show getting the book. You will find it very useful. Skoda Power Rulz!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 Just thought I'd let everyone know. I've been having a problem with my fish and got some Metronidazole from a vet at the Wellington Animates named Tracy. She was very very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peety Posted March 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 The vet at Janssens was the best for me. His name is Chris and better than others by miles. He also fixed the last probs I had until we discovered TB. Now I need to decide whether to give up or not since theres a 2 year period of contamination. U can use tricozole instead of metro too. Also I have tried other meds in last 3 months so if ya wondering ... drop me a line... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 Trichozole IS metronidozole. Just gave the fish the last dose today...So, we'll see if it did the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peety Posted March 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 Are you sure? I spoke to a couple of vets (not that that makes them experts, as i now know), but they seemed to express that metro and tricozole were two different products....???? I understood metro was people medicine, and effective at people temps, and had been told tricozole didn't require the same high temps to work.... back at ya.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 Nope, from what I can see, it's all the same stuff. Trichozole, Metronidozole and Flagyl(For humans). Well, I guess it could be slight variations, but I dunno, probably just differences for what it's intended for. The medicine may be named Metronidazole, and branded as Trichozole for vets and flagyl for humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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