Jebao return pump

[fishgirl53]

Hi my main tank is 1.800x600x600 648ltrs the sump is 900x400x400 144ltrs what size return pump should I need I am looking at the Jebao thanks and also what size wave maker x2

Edited April 1, 2016 by fishgirl53

[Ira]

Depends, what kind of tank is it?  Freshwater?  Marine?  Fish that like a lot of current, fish that don't like much?  Planted?  What's the head height from the sump to the main tank?

 

Making some wild guesses, I'd say something like a 2000lph or so return pump and something like Jebao RW8 size powerheads for the main tank.  Should be good for about 5X turnover from the sump to the main tank and  about 25X turnover from the wavemakers.

[fishgirl53]

Thank you the tank will be fresh water with cichlids from the bottom of the sump to the top of the tank is 1.4mtrs

[alanmin4304]

The head is the distance from the top of the water in the sump to the top of the water in the tank plus any friction loss in the reticulation.

[Shilo]

Making some wild guesses, I'd say something like a 2000lph or so return pump and something like Jebao RW8 size powerheads for the main tank.  Should be good for about 5X turnover from the sump to the main tank and  about 25X turnover from the wavemakers.

Shouldn't it need much more then 2000lph for a 650-700 ltr?  700ltr x 5 = 3500lph not including the head and friction (your piping size, number of elbows, valves etc).  Personally I would use a 8-9000lph, a DC Jebao can be dialled down if needed.

[fishgirl53]

Thank you you are right I was thinking of a 9000lph but just wanted other advice 

[Ira]

Shouldn't it need much more then 2000lph for a 650-700 ltr?  700ltr x 5 = 3500lph not including the head and friction (your piping size, number of elbows, valves etc).  Personally I would use a 8-9000lph, a DC Jebao can be dialled down if needed.

Yeah, 2000 might be a little low, you could go with a 9000 LPH,  but you generally don't need huge amounts of flow through a sump.

Also with 9000 liters per hour through the sump and overflow in my experience your life would likely be SSHHHHSHSHSHSHSHSHGLUGLGULGUGLBUBBLEGLUGGSSSHHHSHSHBLUBLG SSSHSHSHSHSHSHWOWOOOSOSSHHBLUBLUSGLUGLSULGSHHSHSHSHSHSHSHSHSH

SHSHSHSRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGUGLGULGUGLSBUGBBSwhatdoyouwantglubglubfordinner?

SHHSHSwhat?SHSCHSWOOSHSHSDINNER?glugbshshshshshshshshLet'sgoBLUBLUBoutsomewhere!SSHSHS

[fishgirl53]

ok Im thinking maybe a 7000 or 8000 then I have room to dial it down to a suitable flow

[Shilo]

 But I've thought it always sound like:

SSHHHHSHSHSHSHSHSHGLUGLGULGUGLBUBBLEGLUGGwanttogotothetoiletyet?SSSHHHSHSHyoureallywantto gotothetoiletBLUBLG SSHHHHSHSHSHSHSHSHGLUGLGULGUGLbackalreadyBUBBLEGLUGGSSSHHHSHSHyouwantogoagainnow!BLUBLG 

Noisy tanks all depend on what overflow system you use and how its tuned, not on the strength of the water flow.  A simple hole in the side of the tank or single standpipe will be noisy but a double or triple pipe overflow system should create no noise at all.   Filter systems are a different matter with a wet/dry filter being the loud unless filters inlet pipe is under water which can be complicated to tune (a variable pump like a DC one helps here) & make.  More water flow doesn't necessarily mean more noise unless the overflow is not designed to cope with it.  In my tank the overflow is completely silent (500ltr with a DC 7000lph running) and the wet/dry is in a separate room so noise from it doesn't matter.  For a 650ltr tank I would go for a 9000lph (it won't use any more electricity then a smaller pump if dialled down to the same rate of flow).

Also I personally wouldn't worry about wave makers until the tank is set up.  For freshwater normal current tanks a wave maker is mainly used to get rid of any dead spots and help move debris around the tank so it gets filtered out.  The current flow in the tank and what dead spots develop will depend on the location of the inlet pipe / spray bar in the tank and where any rocks and logs are placed.   

 

 

[fishgirl53]

I am doing a herbie overflow 2 42mm holes for the drains and the return up and over into the tank or do you think I should drill another hole for the return

[Shilo]

2 x 42mm will be amble.  Just make sure the main 100% flow drain in the Herbie is deep enough below the overflows water level not to suck in any air (creating a vortex) and tune the main drain valve so that the 2nd higher drain has either a very, very small trickle of water going down it (can't see it but will wet a tissue) or no water at all but the level is at the top of the pipe.  If that 2nd "emergency" drain is 10+cm higher then the main drain you won't have a problem.  Water only makes noise if it is mixed with air (think waterfall, waves etc), if there is no air going into the system there is no noise.

With my 7000lph Jabeo I have the valve on the 100% drain of the Herbie tuned so that at full bore there is a small trickle down the emergency stand pipe but when the pumps turned down so that 2 of the lights on the control pad are off the water level is 3cm below the emergency stand pipes top (normal operation).  If I turn it down even more and the level drops to below 5cm it sucks air and makes noise.  The stand pipes are 32mm and the valve is approx 3/4's open.  42mm pipes will easily handle a 9000lph at full bore with normal head taken into account.

[flymike]

I run 650l in main tank (1800x600x750) and 200l in the sump sump, using the jabeo DCS9000 at no.4 power (apx %49 power) flow is apx 3332 lph up to the tank

 

This is not a high flow, giving only 5.1x cycles per hour of the tank, but is ideal for the low stocking and bare bottom I have currently.

 

I also run a fluval CP3 2800lph wave maker pointing up to the overflow

 

I designed the overflow and pipework to be able to handle 10,200lph, at the head height the tank is at (apx 1.2m from water level in sump to water level in tank), the DCS9000 maxes out at around 6800lph at this height.

 

I would go with the DCS9000 pump for what you want, it will be ideal, and a quiet runner

 

Mike

[fishgirl53]

Thank you there is more in favor of that size pump and that is what I will go for  

[fishgirl53]

I got the 9000 Jebo and even on 1 it is too powerful hoping supplier will take it back and replace it with 4000 hopefully that will not be too small what do you think 

[Shilo]

That does not sound right for a 650ltr tank.  How is it too powerful?  Is it overpowering your overflow? The current too strong in the aquarium? How much water is flowing into the sump?

With it on a setting of 1 there should be less then half the water flowing through the system, if there is no difference between 1 & 10 then you might have ended up with a faulty controller (separate part so easy to get exchanged).  

There should be a heap of water flowing into the sump, if there isn't and the overflow is filling too quickly then it could point to a plumbing problem.  Check the overflow valve is opened up & there is no blockage anywhere.

 

[fishgirl53]

there is a lot of water flowing into the sump I have 2 poret foam between the baffles it dosent seem to be getting enough water in the 2nd side of the sump where the pump is we started it off on the highest flow 10 just about blew the sand out of the tank turned it down to setting 1 and it was better had the valve right open the water was shooting over the middle baffle if we turned the pump up a little the sump where the pump is would have run dry my outlets are 40mm and the return is 32mm what have I done wrong 

[livingart]

what size are your overflow pipes, i run the 12,000 with 2 25mm overflows pipes to sump

[Shilo]

Any pictures of your sump and overflow?  

"I have 2 poret foam between the baffles it dosent seem to be getting enough water in the 2nd side of the sump where the pump is we...."

This bit sounds like there is either not enough holes in the baffles or you have the fine grade foam & the water is directed from the bottom edge of the foam sheet up to the top edge instead of through the middle of it.  With poret the water should be going though the flat sides and the "baffles" only used to support the edges and stop the foam from bowing. If your baffles are like commonly seen on a marine tank sump with a gap at the bottom of one baffle and at the top of another then the water is trying to flow up the length of the foam from bottom to top which could be too restrictive.  The glass baffles like used on a marine tank are mainly to prevent air bubbles from going through the system & are not needed in freshwater.

As an example the attached pic is my set up: the water flows from the wet/dry through the flat sides of the foam & polisher then to the pump.  Only baffle is to support the polisher (gutter mesh sides in a epoxy/wood frame), the foam is only supported by being jammed in and small bits of more foam at the bottom. (pump in pic is only a 4000ltr/hr and wasn't powerful enough).

The sand problem is an easy fix by either directing the return away from the bottom or putting in a spray bar.  If you still want bottom current then the spray bar could run along the end of the tank just above the sand, twist it so the holes point up enough not to disturb the sand.

I still think you have the right sized pump, just the set up needs a bit more tweaking.  You could always double check by timing how long a bucket will fill from under the overflow and a bit of maths.  If it works out that between at least 2000ltr /hr to 4000ltr / hr is being pumped through then the pump size is correct (3 to 5x the tank volume per hour). You wouldn't want any less and more is Ok with a controllable pump.

 

[fishgirl53]

ok here is the sump

[fishgirl53]

There is a gap under the middle baffle so have I got the wrong sump built and what can I do about it now thanks

[Shilo]

Ok, Yes it looks like the water has to flow from top to the bottom and from the bottom to the top of the foam which is causing the problem.  I would remove the baffles completely (slice silicon with a razor blade or similar) then silicon 2cm wide strips of either glass or plastic down the sides and along the bottom where the baffles are currently placed.  The foam could then slot between these strips and be supported (stop any bowing).

Another option is to leave the baffles in place but fill them with ceramic media, then add foam support strips in the overflow section of the sump in front of the baffles.  This will have the advantage of not only increasing the amount of biological media (foam + ceramic noodles) in the sump but also allow the foam to filter out any bigger particles before they can clog up the pores in the ceramic media.

With the water flowing through the ends of the foam between the baffles you would also have had problems with the foam ends gunking up fast.  With the water flowing through the middle sides of the foam any gunk will have a lot more surface area to spread over before the foam clogs (one year on and I have yet to need to clean my Poret). 

Others may offer different solutions but the above is what I would do.

[fishgirl53]

I have really appreciate everyone's help and i will do what Shiloh has said I am sure it is the baffles that is the fault someone once said the sump looks like a salt water one 

[fishgirl53]

I will try putting the ceramic media between the baffles first I guess they will need to go into a bag is that correct and the Porte foam in the outlet compartment I have one heater in the other compartment with the pump the other heater in the tank couldn't fit them both in the sump which was a bigger 

[fishgirl53]

I will try putting the ceramic media between the baffles first I guess they will need to go into a bag is that correct and the Porte foam in the outlet compartment I have one heater in the other compartment with the pump the other heater in the tank couldn't fit them both in the sump which was a bigger 

[Shilo]

A mesh bag will make removing the noodles to clean easier.  You could buy a bag or just untie one of those shower scrunchies (they are a very long mesh tube). tie or sew one end and pack with the noodles.  Much cheaper then buying aquarium media bags.  Don't pack them tight as you want heaps of water movement through them.  Still use the foam - you already have it and it will be a simple job to silicon in some braces to hold it.  You don't need glass, acyrlic or even pvc (strips cut from a thick bucket?) will work.

I don't have much experience with heaters but a well placed piece of drift wood will disguise it.  Alternatively in the future you could research for shorter / thicker heaters that would fit in the sump?