Lowering pH?

[blondfish]

In the future, I would like to get some softwater fish, the problem is, my pH sits at around 8.0.

What are some effective ways of lowering the pH to around 6.8?

I've heard of peat moss being used but I've never seen it for sale and I have no idea where I would source some from.

Any ideas are much appreciated

[livingart]

Peat Fiber in a canister filter, driftwood in the tank, DIY CO2, Indian Almond Leaves, to name a few.

[Adrienne]

Given that a pH of 8. is higher than most tap water, do you have anything in your tank to get it that high? Beach sand, shells, slate, coral?

Peat placed either in the tank or filter, driftwood or a matured tank will drop the pH without going down the path of pH down. Hollywood Fish Farm sells it in their shops so I assume other shops may stock it.

[blondfish]

How good are they long term? How often would they need replacing?

Also, where would I be able to get peat fibre from?

[blondfish]

I don't have anything in my tank that could effect the pH.

The pH is 7.8 out of the tap, but after 24 hours of "degassing" it rises to 8

[Adrienne]

Never having had to use it, as my tank sits around 6., I just googled (google is a handy tool ) and aquarium safe peat fibre is available from pet shops ie HFF as above.

Peat can be purchased from garden centres but I do not know if this can be used in tanks. Your tank will discolour, the amount of discolouring will depend on the quality of peat used.

[blondfish]

Cheers!

I'll have a look around and see if I can find some

So jealous of your pH

[Adrienne]

My pH is 7.4 out of the tap but the tank is planted and has driftwood in it which drops it.

[danval]

You won't be able to bring the PH down and keep it stable on tap water unless it is soft. Try using rain water.

[blondfish]

You won't be able to bring the PH down and keep it stable on tap water unless it is soft. Try using rain water.

Okay, I'll collect some and test it.

Will the rain fall be constant enough for weekly water changes?

What about pollutants?

[David R]

Good point danval, if you're going to start trying to alter your pH then you really should test you hardness to get an idea of the buffering capacity of the water. Most of the things suggested won't do squat if you have hard alkaline tap water. Some water companies increase the pH to avoid problems from having acidic water running through the pipes, my Auckland tap water has off-the-chart blue [high] but had a fairly low mineral content [hardness] so would drop down easily with driftwood in the tanks.

Rain water presents another set of problems, it has no mineral content so the pH will fluctuate easily, if you have wood in your tank and use rainwater with out some sort of mineral buffer you could end up with the pH well below 6.

What sort of fish are you keeping, and why do you want to adjust your water?

[blondfish]

What sort of fish are you keeping, and why do you want to adjust your water?

In the future, I'm hoping to keep Ghost Catfish, Kuhli Loaches and Harlequin Raboras. Whilst doing research, I found that most Ghost Catfish are wild caught, therefore being harder to acclimate to hard water.

I normally don't worry about my pH but Ghost Catfish are a fish I really want to keep, which is the only reason I'm even thinking about changing my pH.

If keeping the pH stable will be too hard then I won't keep Ghost Catfish, I don't want to subject them to fluctuating levels.

I was googling ways to reduce the pH naturally and I saw where someone suggested using 20L bucket with holes drilled in the bottom and a layer of cheese cloth, then a layer of peat, then another layer of cheese cloth. The person then suggested getting another 20L bucket and putting the peat bucket inside the other bucket and then pouring the water into the top bucket before pouring into the aquarium.

How effective would this method be?

[danval]

This would work but only with soft water... The Ph may change initially with tap water but will revert back to the original Ph.

[blondfish]

This would work but only with soft water... The Ph may change initially with tap water but will revert back to the original Ph.

:phb: That's annoying!

I'll ask Carine what they do, next time I'm there, since they sell Ghost Cats.

Any other ideas?

I'm worried about using rain water, because of the pollutants and that during summer the rain fall might not be constant enough.

[Dr A]

Good point danval, if you're going to start trying to alter your pH then you really should test you hardness to get an idea of the buffering capacity of the water. Most of the things suggested won't do squat if you have hard alkaline tap water. Some water companies increase the pH to avoid problems from having acidic water running through the pipes, my Auckland tap water has off-the-chart blue [high] but had a fairly low mineral content [hardness] so would drop down easily with driftwood in the tanks.

Rain water presents another set of problems, it has no mineral content so the pH will fluctuate easily, if you have wood in your tank and use rainwater with out some sort of mineral buffer you could end up with the pH well below 6.

What sort of fish are you keeping, and why do you want to adjust your water?

If it was just a case of having hard water wouldn't a grunty (RO/ RO+DI) filter do the trick?

[Ira]

If it was just a case of having hard water wouldn't a grunty (RO/ RO+DI) filter do the trick?

Yeah, but so would rainwater, and last time I checked a $200L barrel costs about $30, a RO/DI filter several hundred.

[Dr A]

Yeah, but so would rainwater, and last time I checked a $200L barrel costs about $30, a RO/DI filter several hundred.

Of course, but you can run it year round and not worry about pollutants like the OP was concerned about.

[alexyay]

:phb: That's annoying!

I'll ask Carine what they do, next time I'm there, since they sell Ghost Cats.

Any other ideas?

I'm worried about using rain water, because of the pollutants and that during summer the rain fall might not be constant enough.

I haven't looked for peat moss in Carine but Animates will usually have it. I've found most fish (despite being listed as neutral) are happy with the 7.6/7.8pH that my tank is. (I have kuhlis without any issues, along with a (currently lone: I'll get more once they're in stock) threadfin rainbow, black neon tetras and other "low pH" fish). I've never tried glass catfish, though.

[Adrienne]

I would be very surprised if a LFS or pet store knew the pH of their tanks (as in checked regularly) on any given day. Most of the tanks are established and pH is likely to be on the slightly lower side of 7. unless they are species specific as in Africans and then there will be coral in the tank. I would imagine the tanks would only be checked if problems occurred or 2-3 times a year as most of us tend to do.

[alexyay]

I would be very surprised if a LFS or pet store knew the pH of their tanks (as in checked regularly) on any given day. Most of the tanks are established and pH is likely to be on the slightly lower side of 7. unless they are species specific as in Africans and then there will be coral in the tank. I would imagine the tanks would only be checked if problems occurred or 2-3 times a year as most of us tend to do.

That too - I'm pretty sure Carine keep all their tanks (other than species specific ones) at the same parameters (eg. their brackish bumblebee gobies were in a FW tank rather than a brackish specific).

[David R]

I normally don't worry about my pH but Ghost Catfish are a fish I really want to keep, which is the only reason I'm even thinking about changing my pH.

If keeping the pH stable will be too hard then I won't keep Ghost Catfish, I don't want to subject them to fluctuating levels.

Stop worrying about your pH and have a look at your hardness. As danval suggested, if you have tap water with a high mineral content you're most likely going to be pushing the proverbial uphill with a rake trying to lower your pH with peat. In habitat a low pH is usually associated with soft water and low TDS [Total Dissolved Solids] (eg; a blackwater stream), and high pH usually associated with hard water and high TDS (eg; lake Tanganyika). The mineral content of the water is of far more concern to your fish than pH as it affects how they osmoregulate, but because pH is usually a rough indicator of the hardness/mineral content the aquarium hobby seems to focus on that. Outside of habitat, there can be all sorts of variations for many reasons, as in my previous post where I mentioned the water companies adjusting the pH of the water up without really increasing the hardness. You really have two options; A, stick some peat in your filter and plenty of driftwood in the tank (along with removing anything that would buffer the hardness up) and watch what happens to the pH, or B, get a GH/KH test kit from your LFS and find out what you're dealing with. With option A you may (or may not) find the peat lowers the pH, but it will not change the hardness, which is what matters more to your fish.

I keep my Amazonian species at a pH of around 7-7.5 and they are thriving, probably because the hardness is very low and the TDS <60ppm. I am on rain water supply for our whole house, but we are out of the city so pollution isn't an issue.

If it was just a case of having hard water wouldn't a grunty (RO/ RO+DI) filter do the trick?

That would be a start, it would remove the minerals from the water and give you pure H2O with a TDS of 0ppm. If you used that in your aquarium without any sort of buffer you would probably find the pH fluctuating considerably (and there's debate about the minerals needed for fish etc etc). Using rainwater is almost the same thing, my tap water has about 6ppm TDS, I find that having beach sand (crushed shell) mixed in with my substrate prevents the large quantity of driftwood from crashing the pH without jacking the hardness/TDS up too high.

[chris b]

If it were me id just buy fish that live in water that is close to my tap water way less stress makes water changes a breeze :cofn:

[blondfish]

Stop worrying about your pH and have a look at your hardness. As danval suggested, if you have tap water with a high mineral content you're most likely going to be pushing the proverbial uphill with a rake trying to lower your pH with peat. In habitat a low pH is usually associated with soft water and low TDS [Total Dissolved Solids] (eg; a blackwater stream), and high pH usually associated with hard water and high TDS (eg; lake Tanganyika). The mineral content of the water is of far more concern to your fish than pH as it affects how they osmoregulate, but because pH is usually a rough indicator of the hardness/mineral content the aquarium hobby seems to focus on that. Outside of habitat, there can be all sorts of variations for many reasons, as in my previous post where I mentioned the water companies adjusting the pH of the water up without really increasing the hardness. You really have two options; A, stick some peat in your filter and plenty of driftwood in the tank (along with removing anything that would buffer the hardness up) and watch what happens to the pH, or B, get a GH/KH test kit from your LFS and find out what you're dealing with. With option A you may (or may not) find the peat lowers the pH, but it will not change the hardness, which is what matters more to your fish.

I keep my Amazonian species at a pH of around 7-7.5 and they are thriving, probably because the hardness is very low and the TDS <60ppm. I am on rain water supply for our whole house, but we are out of the city so pollution isn't an issue.

That would be a start, it would remove the minerals from the water and give you pure H2O with a TDS of 0ppm. If you used that in your aquarium without any sort of buffer you would probably find the pH fluctuating considerably (and there's debate about the minerals needed for fish etc etc). Using rainwater is almost the same thing, my tap water has about 6ppm TDS, I find that having beach sand (crushed shell) mixed in with my substrate prevents the large quantity of driftwood from crashing the pH without jacking the hardness/TDS up too high.

I've ordered a GH/KH kit now, should be here Thursday or Friday. I'll let you know the results.

That too - I'm pretty sure Carine keep all their tanks (other than species specific ones) at the same parameters (eg. their brackish bumblebee gobies were in a FW tank rather than a brackish specific).

So, you think the Ghosts Cat's would already be acclimated to our pH?

I haven't looked for peat moss in Carine but Animates will usually have it. I've found most fish (despite being listed as neutral) are happy with the 7.6/7.8pH that my tank is. (I have kuhlis without any issues, along with a (currently lone: I'll get more once they're in stock) threadfin rainbow, black neon tetras and other "low pH" fish). I've never tried glass catfish, though.

Yeah, I normally don't worry about messing with the pH but with the strong likely hood of the catfish being wild caught, the risk of the pH being too high and "shocking" them is just too strong for my liking .

Yeah, but so would rainwater, and last time I checked a $200L barrel costs about $30, a RO/DI filter several hundred.

That's the thing that puts me off using RO/DI is the cost, and also the on going cost of having to add the minerals.

I would be very surprised if a LFS or pet store knew the pH of their tanks (as in checked regularly) on any given day. Most of the tanks are established and pH is likely to be on the slightly lower side of 7. unless they are species specific as in Africans and then there will be coral in the tank. I would imagine the tanks would only be checked if problems occurred or 2-3 times a year as most of us tend to do.

You say about established tanks having lower pH, can you please explain how that is?

Surely, if the tap pH is high then with weekly/bi weekly water changes the pH would remain the same?