henward Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 house offer accepted:D tank build... almost in progress ok, questions Proposed tank size: 3m x 1.2m x 80cm high 2800L back up tank size (not ideal but hey such as life) 3m x 1m x 70cm h 2100L questions: 1) if i fully insulate the garage, talking green stuff and ply over it on ceiling, walls. is it worth bothering with putting poly on the glass itself on side, back? 2) once i heat the tank to say 26/27c, according to online calculators, heaing to 28 and the heat loss is much greater than heating to 26/27c... the fish i want will thrive in 26 to 27c anyways! will the heat loss and heating cost be much different for the 2 sizes proposed IF the garage is fully insulated? 3) if fully insulated, that means in summer, i cant harness the sun beating down on the garage .... is this the case? how does one harness this heat? garage floor is concrete, cant have carpet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 My old garage got up to 40C in summer, so you probably don't want to harness that much heat... I'd be inclined to insulate the room rather than the tank, especially if you're going to have other tanks in there, or even just for the sump. You will need to turn the air over to avoid the stink factor, I never got around to doing that with my old room, not quite sure what I'm going to do with the big tank here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted January 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Yeah, My new tank set up, i am planning to have it quite 'sealed' so, really, no openings as much as possible, tiny openings. feeding hole at the top. so evaporation is almost none etc. hard to explain. no corners taken out of lids and stuff like that. socks chamber covered fully wtih hole on the side of tower and a manifold to distribute water from overflows. but yes, circulating air i suppose is important, dehumidifier i guess. Fan? or occasionally opening a door i guess. but i think i am gonna really focus on insulation for the ceiling, walls, covering upt he window. ply over it SO is that the case, insulating the room is better than the tank walls? i thought so too but just wanted feedback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Based on my knowledge of insulation (houses rather than tanks) I would definitely insulate the garage. Unless you plan on putting poly on all faces of the tank, which would be very efficient but it's not quite the same staring at a large block of polystyrene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgustipated Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 you gonna be selling tickets to come check it out when you done? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted January 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 I am having issues now in terms of logistics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted January 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Tank maker said that 3m is a problem. because you will get glass bowing. http://www.theaquatools.com/building-your-aquarium \ according to that, safety of 2.4 you can do 3m by 1m by 70cm. any thoughts? I am trying to find an optimal size, my main goal is to arowana comm, so width is important, length too, height is so much but it is also quite important so aros can go to bottom and escape and submit to dominant aros. Another option is 3m x 1.2m by 60 12mm with a safety factor of 3.2 is that ok? or will the glass still bow due to the length? i figure, if you brace say every metre, and do quite thick bracing front and back .... should that be ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Would it pain you too much to have a frame built that braced the glass from the outside? If it were done tastefully it wouldn't impinge on the aesthetics and then you may be able to have an even bigger tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgustipated Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 i was about to ask hward why he is making the whole thing out of glass. i have seen some awesome monster tanks that are made of a timber frame, ply, tiles on bottom and sides, with a front glass display panel. why you no do this henward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted January 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 i was about to ask hward why he is making the whole thing out of glass. i have seen some awesome monster tanks that are made of a timber frame, ply, tiles on bottom and sides, with a front glass display panel. why you no do this henward? I am consdering it, but the glass at the front is still needing to have enough strength. th water pressure would be the same. unless you only have the glass wndow on the top half of the tank. but i am considering it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Another option is 3m x 1.2m by 60 12mm with a safety factor of 3.2 It's your dream tank, don't skimp. 300x120x70 15mm glass, sorted. Greg said he wouldn't be happy building my tank out of 12mm, even at 65 high, so I don't think he would be keen to do longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 why do I get the feeling we will hear about a dedicated aquarist suffocating in his well insulated room Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 It's your dream tank, don't skimp. 300x120x70 15mm glass, sorted. Greg said he wouldn't be happy building my tank out of 12mm, even at 65 high, so I don't think he would be keen to do longer. +1 dont hold back, or you will regret it in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted January 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 yeah, i totally agree. no i am reassesing the size! i am trying to find the optimal size that balances cost/size/glass mm. Also trying to save for europe as well as about to buy a house :slfg: I am now considering a smaller scale tank! 2.4m x 1m x 65cm high. water height will be 60 after taking into account loss of dimensions. 1500litres. the footprint is suited for my arowana and comm. not as big - not quite my 'dream' tank. but the again - Not quite my dream stock. i am somewhat accepting that maybe my dream tank is not quite here yet :tears: May time it to come with my dream stock one day! in a pro to this situatoin. I means i can keep running my 600litre as well as the 1500 and it is less water and heating than the 2880litre tank i originally planned. WIN! :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 TBH I wouldn't try a comm in that tank, especially since you already have one nice big aro. Better off having one perfect fish than 5 with torn fins... Have a read of this thread, you know you want to go bigger... http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... project%29 :bggrn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Don't skimp on safety factor!!!!!!! As tanks get bigger the safety factor has to go up. Going below the recommended minimum of 3.8 is risky. Bigger tanks have more overall force. An small errors or movement transfers more force to specific points of the tank than in a smaller tank with the same safety factor. Therefore the risk of it going po goes up also. The value of 3.8 is based on statistical analysis of aquarium failures in the USA and Europe (not NZ shakey-land). It's used by all commercial suppliers of large public displays as it ehsures public safety is met. I don't know the statistical value of tank failure when a tank is built with a safety factor of 3.8 but it will be a pretty small number if it's based in the US. Think of safety factor as insurance. Why skimp a few hunder dollars on glass thickness when there's thousands of dollars of fish at risk??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted February 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Don't skimp on safety factor!!!!!!! As tanks get bigger the safety factor has to go up. Going below the recommended minimum of 3.8 is risky. Bigger tanks have more overall force. An small errors or movement transfers more force to specific points of the tank than in a smaller tank with the same safety factor. Therefore the risk of it going po goes up also. The value of 3.8 is based on statistical analysis of aquarium failures in the USA and Europe (not NZ shakey-land). It's used by all commercial suppliers of large public displays as it ehsures public safety is met. I don't know the statistical value of tank failure when a tank is built with a safety factor of 3.8 but it will be a pretty small number if it's based in the US. Think of safety factor as insurance. Why skimp a few hunder dollars on glass thickness when there's thousands of dollars of fish at risk??? Agreed so here is the problem for 240x120x60 - safety factor of 3.8 is 13mm we dont get 13mm glass so 3.7 is 12mm is that 0.1 safety factor ok? if i do 12mm same with 240x120x70cm 3.8 safety is 16mm, 3.7 is 15mm say i brace the top, edges in a hefty way, that should compensate for that 0.1 in safety factor right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted February 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 additional to that. if i move it from 60cm WATER HEIGHT, i am assuming that the water height is key. if i move it down to 58cm water height, the safety factor then complies with the minimum safety factor. so i can reduce my water by 1cm - this will then comply to the 3.8sf 240x120x58 is a safety factor of 4. or 59cm high is safety factor of 3.9 at 12mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 say i brace the top, edges in a hefty way, that should compensate for that 0.1 in safety factor right? No, you're not getting it - as per my previous post(s) - the calculator already assumes the top edge has a hefty brace - the equivalent of about 100mm x 100mm box steel or bigger!!! So no, it will not improve or change the safety factor in any way whatsoever... In saying that, 0.1 should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted February 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 No, you're not getting it - as per my previous post(s) - the calculator already assumes the top edge has a hefty brace - the equivalent of about 100mm x 100mm box steel or bigger!!! So no, it will not improve or change the safety factor in any way whatsoever... In saying that, 0.1 should be fine. ok, i think i found a way to get 3.8 to 4 sf. cutting down a couple of cm water height i think will do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletmonuka Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 i don't pretend to know anything about this but have been reading along.. just a thought. with what you were saying about making the rest of the tank out of other stuff but the front still having to be glass... is it not at all possible to have it made out of clear Perspex? (hope i've spelt that right) surely you could get a piece made to the size you want and get them to make it say 20mm thick? i ofcourse don't know the cost of this or if it can even be done. Heh if i'm wrong i'll just shut my yap :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 additional to that. if i move it from 60cm WATER HEIGHT, i am assuming that the water height is key. if i move it down to 58cm water height, the safety factor then complies with the minimum safety factor. so i can reduce my water by 1cm - this will then comply to the 3.8sf 240x120x58 is a safety factor of 4. or 59cm high is safety factor of 3.9 at 12mm or 15mm glass............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted February 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 or 15mm glass............... 15mm glass with 70cm height is the same situation as above. reducing the water level i think is key. weighing up the cost of an extra 700 dollars, i am leaning towards the slightly shorter tank tank will still be 70cms high but the water height will only be 58.5 where the overflow drains. This is so the aros dont hit the lids when they feed like they do now! this way i can run my 600litre toow ith no extra cost... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgustipated Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 i don't pretend to know anything about this but have been reading along.. just a thought. with what you were saying about making the rest of the tank out of other stuff but the front still having to be glass... is it not at all possible to have it made out of clear Perspex? (hope i've spelt that right) surely you could get a piece made to the size you want and get them to make it say 20mm thick? i ofcourse don't know the cost of this or if it can even be done. Heh if i'm wrong i'll just shut my yap :thup: i is also curious. why not perspex for front viewing panel, or acrylic even? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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