F15hguy Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 strange for a change that big to happen so quickly. double check your readings (small amounts of contaminants can make the tests go way out especially pH) what was the timeframe and how big a water change was done?? try testing the water out of the tap t see if there was anything there. an was the bucket used clean??? (my missus loves to try and use my buckets for mopping) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted October 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 As it's only 6 week old, I've been doing 10% twice per week. This was a big change, so I've just done a 25%er. Did the tests twice, same result. I have specific buckets in bright red with "touch this bucket, and die" in block lettering on them LOL. (my cleaner is lovely, but a tad dozey lol). Could this just be a spike being a new tank? I've checked around and it appears to be common feedback that spikes happen in new tanks, before it settles down. Was just surprised, as the dwarf gourami in question is the one that jumps to steal food from my fingers. I know my posts can probably sound a bit daft, but I love this hobby and just want to get it right, without killing any fish. Their personalities are just starting to come out, my previously shy clown loaches latched onto my hand tonight which was briliant! (clean hands, no soap). The only other thing I've done is give them their weekly blood worms. Poor red didn't even want those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Could an algae die off cause this? I presume that like plants algae also remove ammonia etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 if anything I would expect the pH to drop due to the excel being carbon based and the algae die off to be more likely to drop the pH. do you have kids in the room??? I find a lot of strange happenings in fish tanks can be traced back to kids putting tings into the tank (like bars of soap to help mummy clean the tank) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Levels have dropped back, ammonia nearly zero, No2 and No3 dropping, fish are getting worse. 2 Gourami's and 2 ghost cats are hardly moving, refusing to eat. Loaches seem ok. Good theory re the child thing, I do have a 3 year old. She does however know the rules, and it's an AR980 so tall with a closed hood. I've asked her and she said she hasn't touched it. I didn't put excel in on last nights water change. The algae is still disappearing, brown algae has gone too. I'd prefer to have it back along with my healthy fish The water appeared a tad cloudy when I added the excel. It's cleared mostly, but still slightly visible. Any theories?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Any theories?? What temperature is the tank at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Question, I've done 2 water changes over the last 2 nights. Is it safe to do another tonight? Or will that potentially shock them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Tank is at a stable 27. Their activity picked up when I raised it last week from 26. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 The more water changes you do the less likely you are to upset them as the tank water more closely approximates the source water. Flourish is a reducing agent so lowers oxygen levels but Gouramis have a labyrinth organ so can get oxygen from air. So, sounds more like ammonia/nitrite etc toxicity that they're recovering from. I would have been tempted to add some chloride to counter the methaemoglobinaemia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 In english that translates to partial water changers are good (use water conditioner so you dont kill your bacteria) Salt is good as it will aid in your fish coping with ammonia poisoning. Dropping the temp a little will also help as it will shift the ammonia/ammonium to be less toxic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Dropped temp slightly, did another water change. Levels are back to PH 7.4, No2, No3 and Ammonia at 0. 1 Gourami rolling side to side, only moving with the current. 2 others have started bobbing very still at the bottom of the tank. 2 glass cats are following suit. The recovering loach has lost so much black in such a short time, and is not moving. 3 other loaches have slowed. None are eating. Tested tap water. Aside from a PH of 7.4, all others are zero. Trying to get hold of council to see if any toxins have made their way into water supply. And I have to go away for work tomorrow morning for the night. This is not going well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godly3vil Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 This might be a silly question but you haven't happened to use any air fresheners around the tank have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris b Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 In english that translates to partial water changers are good (use water conditioner so you dont kill your bacteria) Salt is good as it will aid in your fish coping with ammonia poisoning. Dropping the temp a little will also help as it will shift the ammonia/ammonium to be less toxic. she has just raised the temp for the clown loaches and salt isn't good with them anyway. it will be going through a cycling still do frequent little water changes keep an eye on parameters and it should come right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 This might be a silly question but you haven't happened to use any air fresheners around the tank have you? That's not a silly question, but no, I'm chemically sensitive (anaphylaxis) so I don't use that sort of thing. I asked my daughter nicely again if she'd helped Mummy with the tank, and she said she wouldn't touch as it gives the fishes a tummy ache. I know she hasn't "assisted" in any way. Add 1 more loach and cat to the "sick list". They're all just rolling around on the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris b Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 any pics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godly3vil Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 If I were you I would do yet another large water change 60%+ and double check ammonia and add extra aeration into the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I took some, but to be honest, they just look like normal fish sitting on the bottom of the tank. Just very still and lifeless. They move a bit, roll around, move a bit more. No gasping, no heading to the surface. I've arranged a house sitter to watch them while I'm away tomorrow night (she thinks i'm nuts). If it continues, I'll drive back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris b Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 If I were you I would do yet another large water change 60%+ and double check ammonia and add extra aeration into the tank. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 If I were you I would do yet another large water change 60%+ and double check ammonia and add extra aeration into the tank. Ok. The pump I have is dual, I'll whack another tube in and do the large water change now. Watch this space...cross fingers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dachende Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 +1 on more water changes What brand of water treatment are you using ? Check the use by dates on all the stuff you're putting in - Smell the open bottles , not too much ! - anything smell really bad ? Did you shake the excel bottle before dosing ? Are you using/Have you used a product like "clarity" or anything similar that removes algae ? I had real problems when using that, caused my fish to do similar things as you are describing. silly question probably - but are there any dead fish hidden somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Your fish seem to have got worse and worse over the last couple of days despite the water changes. You mentioned before that you were on bore water but now you're on mains supply? Assuming that the water you're doing the PWCs is okay, then it seems likely to me that the listlessness you're seeing is due to nitrite toxicity. The emergency treatment of this is temporary chloride ( easiest as a pinch of salt per 40 litres ), or methylene blue in a hospital tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 We'll, they're still alive this morning. A bit more movement, 2 gourami are eating. The poisoning does sound right, I was just surprised as even though the levels spiked, they weren't what I would have though of as dangerous. Sensitive little tykes they are. I'll keep tabs on them while I'm away, and I can drive back tonight if need be. It's only 2 hours away. Not out of the woods yet but they are looking better. Your fish seem to have got worse and worse over the last couple of days despite the water changes. You mentioned before that you were on bore water but now you're on mains supply? On bore water, I was trying to get hold of the council to see if there were reports of any issues as our whole village is on the same system. We've had manganese issues before, so worth a check. Nothing I can track down so far. In answer to the other q's, I'm using Nutrafin products, all seem fine and within the use by dates. Definitely no dead fish. I'll make sure I have the emergency products on hand in the future, just in case this happens again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted October 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Phoned house sitter. She says they are slow, but swimming and they are all eating. I'll do another water change when I get home. Will pick up some new filter cartridges too. Thanks for your help!!!! No doubt that massive water change saved them. I was sure at least some of them were goners for sure. Still not right but better. I'll talk to the cute guy at the LFS about emergency products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris b Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Do you no anyone near you with an established tank and a filter you could borrow (just the filter)? that will quick fix your cycling problems (if that's the problem). I also have a uv light on my filters which i flick on as soon as i see any iffy fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 don't trust the cute guy at the LFS.... trust me I am one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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