Ange_AJMS Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I have managed to get myself a white/platinum male but he has a tiny tiny bit of orange/gold on him. I want to breed him to try to make his descendants lose the orange/gold colour in them. But I don't understand all the genetics jargon , so what I am asking is... Is there anyone here that knows and understands about guppy genetics and if so what colour/type female should I put with him to get what I want? Also while on this subject I have a half red with snakeskin body that I also want to try to make more red through breeding....any thoughts? Thanks Ange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuri08 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 to get back to the from you want you will need a platinum female then breed out the colors this is a long process to get what you want you just have to keep breeding and selectively choose the best specimen and breed from that otherwise it wont revert back to the original genetics.it took me around 2 years to get a full black tuxedo moscow blue completely black/blue but it can be done in a shorter time span if u have multiple specimens.u can use plain females but its very difficult because they would have had to come from some genetic pool and will be near impossble to tell which color variant it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ange_AJMS Posted June 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Thank you Zuri08 for that information. I think the hardest thing is going to be finding a platinum female :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuri08 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 depending on your location i might be able to point u in the right direction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ange_AJMS Posted June 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 depending on your location i might be able to point u in the right direction I am in Christchurch but would be willing to pay for shipping for the right guppies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaSa Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 A picture would help a lot - platinum is a very wide definition. Quick fix would be putting him together with a female with "blue2" aka "asian blue" (not the classic blue or blue1), "white" or "silver" base color. These base colours can't show yellow and red pigments. Means in F2 or F3 you will have a few males without any yellow or red. Not sure where to get these base colours in NZ from ... Have a read HERE about half way down the page. It explains how Blue2 replaces red. Good luck, JaSa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ange_AJMS Posted June 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Here are a couple of pics of him, sorry will get better ones when I move him into the new tanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Just a quick word in here... Genetics are something that we only understand theoretically, results will always vary, not least due to individual specimens genotype.... Which brings me to the concept of genotype vs phenotype (google it...will help you understand bit more...) Basically, While a specimen looks a particular way, it will carry genes from both its parents, even the recessive genes that may not be visible in the phenotype, and can pass any of them to F2 generation... What I'm trying to get at is that it is not a quick process, and that all the "rules" that work for other breeders might not give you the same results... But keep at it, 'cos once you get to a F3/F4 of true breeders, you should have cracked it... Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 at which point you will need to out cross to maintain strength.... its a fun game sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ange_AJMS Posted June 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 I am going to have fun trying :happy2: I have noticed some females from my neon blue male that have white tails, will wait for them to grow a bit more and may try one of those. Otherwise I will just try out some females and see what I get :roey: Thanks for the help :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaSa Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 The fish in the picture is base colour Blond with Magenta & maybe Stoerzbach Metal. Look in google picture for "magenta guppy" & "Stoerzbach Metal guppy" and you will find different versions depending on the base colour (albino, blond, gray, ...). On blond and albino and in combination together they look like your one ... This is the second time I see Magenta in NZ. Keep him together with blond females and mate him back with females from F1 and you will get what you want in F2 because Magenta is autosomal dominant Nice fish, JaSa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caserole Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Firstly I seriously doubt there is anyone in this country that has the depth of knowledge too really help you. Guppy genetic's is very complex and even harder if you don't know what you are starting with. Please note I have a 3.5 metre room dedicated to creating guppy strains, my focus right now is on pink mutation guppies eg The Panda guppy XpinkXpink Ymoscow Xpink The Pink Mutation has a red inhibiting and a delta tail inhibiting Gene. Also you must be very careful not to introduce yellow colour cells other wise the white platinum will reflect the yellow, I know this as I created a Gold Albino platinum around 2006 from an albino white platinum male and a Green Diamond female ( GD has yellow ). Now down to your Male.... What is he????? Starts for 10, getting rid of the red will be very hard for 2 reasons. 1, it is a VERY DOMINANT colour 2, He may well be a full or mostly red fish. LOOK on top of his head... he's a red head!!!! I have a very similar fish except he has red fins and my research is pointing in the direction of the fish you have being a poor quality Tai Platinum Pink ( don't worry about me using the word "poor" as we grab what we can.) So I believe your goal is not possible with out first creating this strain. To prolong his life keep him cool high teens - low 20's. The best fish to use is a Blonde red tail. The female fry will be carry 1 copy of his platinum gene. When the female fry are 3 months old breed them back to you male, waste the males! 25% of the resulting female fry will carry a double copy of his X Chrom and if your lucky some of the males will look close. P.s I think this line maybe a magenta!!! ( magenta messes with the colour cells, it will double up the same as the platinum gene), which really complicates things, Oh they may carry a single copy of the albino mutations( they also must be doubled up to be revealed ) as Albino Tai platinum pinks are sold by the Asian commercial breeders === Google Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuri08 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 the guppies we get inz nz have been mainly sourced from germany im talking about high qualitys eg moscos yellow flames etc.the rest are mainly singapore exports and are mixed types they dont care what they ship to us as there main good stock heads to usa etc but with selective breeding you can get back to original forms. Its a learning curve but u get there in the end good luck Ps this isnt magenta it will be a red tuxedo mixed in with a platinum so trying to use blonds wont get the colors you wont it will only increase the pigments as they carry more reds than most.closest to albinos.go with a white tailed female no blue or reds and it should revert itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaSa Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Oh, I forgot to say, we Germans call "Platinum" a "Stoerzbach Metal" @caserole: Thanks for backing up my theory about Magenta and breeding him back with his daughters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caserole Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 These fish are NOT H/B( half black ) I have 2 spawning from my male, 1 grey female carried 1 copy of the h/b gene the other female did not carry the gene at all. Some of the female fry from the h/b grey were not h/b which means the male does not carry the gene and the none h/b females fry are not h/b. Whether they have the NI 2 gene is another matter ( this is the gene that stops Moscow's from going pail ), NI 1 = h/black. P.s I used Grey females for 2 reasons, I wanted to revel what a grey copy of the male will revel as it may allows me to see /understand his genetics and I didn't have a red blonde female available at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuri08 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 if it was magenta would be showing signs of deeping purple not recessing purple.caserole would love to see your set up sounds great.i created a strain a few years back not sure if they still around but it was tuxedo platinums and these were the best quality around then.but i think the best would be to get a strain u want and stick to it its alot of work.the main thing is caserole is that these may not even be imports and im assuming you started with imports then worked your way into creating your own strains as i did Magentas are a sub color from a form of albino thats where they originally were created and to reveal that magenta you could use like you said a blonde red tail but i think they want to revert back to full platinum?? with the guppies we have the hardest are the brightest to revert but blue/black moscows dragonheads etc are the easiest as they hold the best genes make sure u post some pics of the guppies u have caserole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caserole Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 if it was magenta would be showing signs of deeping purple not recessing purple. You have described the classic magenta look, but the more pro. guppy breeders understand that mutation and how they can manipulate it the more outrageous the patterns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuri08 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 The way to manipulate that gene is the albino form and color it with snakeskins red damsels,flames, etc to bring the mettalics out and that outrageous color have made magentas before but not great ones was very hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARY ANN Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 They had monstrous tail full pink guppy at the Bird Barn with the big blue guppy. they might make the albino guppy from the pinks like the blue ones do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ange_AJMS Posted June 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 I have gotten a blonde plain female and a couple of blondes that look like they have a little white in their tails, so will see what I get from these. Couldn't find any albino's. Thank you to all those who have helped :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARY ANN Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 I would have thought the best way is to get the exact same strain as the father then select the whites ones in till all the pink etc was covered over threw using the same most white metallic of the same strain. that way you will not end up with a load of muts that throw really nothing like you are wanting. but I just a novice so my selective breeding ways by using only the same strain is wrong? well actually you know you might also find that by breeding into its own that what your aim is is what the actual fish has been made of in dominance. might get pure white body clear tails or pink, red, yellow tails white platinum metallic full whites. giving you many color types that made this strain. all buy just breeding into it self and of cause the pure solid pink moscows are so beautiful that were at the bird barn and that type will be their to. might cost less to as you might only need a few extra tanks for the different types of color variations. tail type variations might also be a few different tanks. i only just started but already my few tanks have different color types and patterns to breed. it is most probable the best thing to do before making new strains with an out X to know fully what you are using first. an actually a very cleaver breeders out breeding might be back into the same line. I am a complete novice but not totally stupid as a 98% average over university 32 subjects. Darwin was one of the very best at genetic line breeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 98% average over university 32 subjects. very impressive, done in this country or overseas? you appear to have built a lot of stock in a very short time, well done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITE DRAGONS Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 I would have thought the best way is to get the exact same strain as the father then select the whites ones in till all the pink etc was covered over threw using the same most white metallic of the same strain. that way you will not end up with a load of muts that throw really nothing like you are wanting. but I just a novice so my selective breeding ways by using only the same strain is wrong? well actually you know you might also find that by breeding into its own that what your aim is is what the actual fish has been made of in dominance. might get pure white body clear tails or pink, red, yellow tails white platinum metallic full whites. giving you many color types that made this strain. all buy just breeding into it self and of cause the pure solid pink moscows are so beautiful that were at the bird barn and that type will be their to. might cost less to as you might only need a few extra tanks for the different types of color variations. tail type variations might also be a few different tanks. i only just started but already my few tanks have different color types and patterns to breed. it is most probable the best thing to do before making new strains with an out X to know fully what you are using first. an actually a very cleaver breeders out breeding might be back into the same line. I am a complete novice but not totally stupid as a 98% average over university 32 subjects. Darwin was one of the very best at genetic line breeding. Great minds think alike. They were making flight in NZ & the US at the same time ?. In to different parts of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITE DRAGONS Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Great minds think alike. They were making flight in NZ & the US at the same time ?. In to different parts of the world. You will be needing more 3-4 tanks MARY ANN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 why do you talk to yourself in posts? why two accounts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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