gsveda Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 I did something really stupid, and bought some freshwater mussels without properly researching them first Now that I'm reading up on them, I’m horrified to discover these creatures are collected from the wild population and are most likely to starve to death slowly as there isn’t enough food in filtered aquarium water for them. I can’t find any good advice about feeding them or suitable substrate and temperature ranges. I have two mussels in a 40ltr freshwater tank, at 18 degrees. Tankmates are ten white cloud mountain minnows and two borneo suckers/butterfly loaches. Substrate is a fine gravel mix, and there are some plants and a bubbler in there as well. I need help finding out either how to keep them alive and happy, or if I would be better finding somewhere that has the same species and releasing them back in the wild. Is that even a good idea or would I be doing more harm than good? One of the overseas sites I found suggested using liquid fry food and using a dropper to squirt it into the water right where the mussel opens, but they also said it's probably going to clear too quickly for them to really get much of it. I'm very passionate about conserving our native wildlife, and the thought that I may inadvertantly be doing something cruel to such a neat creature really distresses me Any advice much appreciated ETA: In the short term I've removed the filter media so that all the goodness isn't immediately filtered out of the water as it circulates. I hope this won't cause anything distressful to happen to the fish in there though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 ETA: In the short term I've removed the filter media so that all the goodness isn't immediately filtered out of the water as it circulates. I hope this won't cause anything distressful to happen to the fish in there though. Probably just cause an increase in ammonia and nitrite until it either kills them or nitrifying bacteria builds up enough on the remaining surfaces for it to have recycled. You'll want to keep testing the ammonia for a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsveda Posted June 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. I was a little panicky when I did that, but it was only thismorning so hopefully not much harm done yet. I'll test when I get home. The filter media is three plastic sheets with carbon on one side and filter wool on the other. What if I replaced them with ceramic noodles and filter wool instead? Would taking the carbon out of the equation help? I did hunt around in some overseas forums and found this description of how to feed their ones, I wonder if this method would work for my mussels? I take a 2 liter bottle and fill it with clean stream/pond water. Then I add about 1/5 teaspoon of my special recipe. The recipe consists of 2 parts flour, 2 parts yeast, and 1 part sugar. This along with green water helps the microorganisms grow. Then I just feed with a turkey baster and squirt the infusoria right into the intake tube of the mussel In the meantime I've bought some liquifry for my other tank and I'll try adding a bit of that to the small tank. And I found some stuff called 'nourish' at the petshop. The description says "Vitamin and amino acid supplement enhanced with iodine for freshwater fish", and it's a mixture of potassium iodide with spirulina and chlorella. The petshop guy thought that might help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Infusoria and green water are what you need for feeding long term. Temp wise 20 odd deg should be fine as there is a good population in a lake near here that gets into the low 20 every summer. I wouldn't return to the wild (and it is illegal to do so) because of disease risks. I the wild they can be found from slow/medium rivers with a sand and silt substrate (even small pebbles) through to lakes with very little flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 by the sounds of it you have a small filter with limited bio capacity, so removing the existing filter media wouldn't have done a lot as there will be plenty of bacteria all through the tank and substrate to support the bioload, using ceramic noodles would be more ideal as they provide a bigger surface area for bacteria growth. the carbon in freshwater filters is generally a waste of time particularly the cheap stuff that comes with the replacement filter wool as it is neither high enough quality or sufficient volume to make much impact on water quality . id just run noodles and no filter wool and a small pouch of purigen if space permitted. also be careful adding infusoria and the additive mentioned to your tank as its quite a small tank and may cause problems when the infusoria die off if too much is added. regular water changes will help combat this don't be afraid to do a 50% water change at least weekly the mussels and fish will fare better for it there are plenty of ways to culture infusoria mentioned on the net that turkey baster idea is a good one as it should help to not cloud the tank with infusoria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsveda Posted June 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Thanks everyone. I sent an email via the Animates website about it, and got this response thismorning: Thanks for your email, this is the first I have heard of this. So will be investigating thoroughly, I have just emailed our supplier to get their comments on this. Animates is a responsible pet retailer, and always ensure we do the right things by pets, including anything that is living. I will be able to give you a full update as soon as I have heard from our suppliers. Thanks again for making us aware of this issue. Cheers Aaron Aquatic, Small Pet and Bird Category Manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Good job, let us know what they come back with All the mussels are gone from my area, even the traditional beds of them at Kakahi - maori for freshwater mussel - are empty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Thanks everyone. I sent an email via the Animates website about it, and got this response thismorning: This, in my personal experience of their stores, is codswallop, especially when it comes to fish (there are a few stores that have experienced fishos running the show, but is exception, not the norm) and they think of them as they would a bag of kibble, a stock asset, rather than a living thing... The fact that they have no idea about the freshwater mussels, and the problems associated with them, that could be found in 0.58seconds in a Google search really shows the level of care and understanding for species they keep... :digH: Would be interesting to see if you hear anything more from this... or if they stop stocking them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsveda Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Update from Animates: Thanks again for making contact with us in regard to this. Upon further enquiries, we have found that there is a product called Novatom, its from the JBL range of fish foods – it is basically a powdered fry that suspends in the water and therefore the mussel can absorb the trace elements as they process the water. I would like to arrange for one of these to be sent to you, as a gesture of good will for bringing this to our attention. If you could please send me your address, or alternately, I can have one put aside for you at the Tauranga store to pick up at your convenience. We are getting some sent to each store to start feeding their mussels immediately and also we will be ranging this product for our customers to purchase along side their mussels. We will also be putting a communication out to every staff member in our business, educating them on how to feed mussls so that we can help our customers better. Thanks again for your feedback. Aaron Waters Category Manager for Aquatic Small Pet and bird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirt Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 That's an awesome response from animates, well done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Update from Animates: I am astounded that they actually seem to have taken it on board... Must of reached the "right" people... EDIT: Actually, why the hell are they stocking them in the first place??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 I don't think they need to absorb trace elements, they're not plants. But fry food does sound like the right path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Still looks like they will stock them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsveda Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 I looked it up, if I've got the right stuff it's actually NovoTom and it's described as: JBL NovoTom Artemia is an extremely finely ground powder food for young fish the size of a newborn guppy. It contains a well-balanced mixture of ingredients, such as proteins, fats and carbohydrates, specially adapted to the feeding habits of young growing fish. Vital vitamins and the biological element, inosite, guarantee healthy growth and strengthen resistance. Recommendation for feeding: Scatter a pinch of food (adjust the amount to suit the number and size of the fish) on the surface of the water 3 to 4 times a day. Staple feed, contains EC colour additives; with E306 antioxidant. Crude protein 29.5% Crude fat 4% Crude fibre 5% Crude ash 10.5% I think I'm still going to do the thing with the green water and the turkey baster as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Wow, they actually responded properly, nice job :thup: Green water does sound like the best option, be interesting to hear if anyone's succesful feeding them novotom though. From what I read about them you need a green grotty looking 1000L tank to keep one wee mussel happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supasi Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Green water does sound like the best option, be interesting to hear if anyone's succesful feeding them novotom though. From what I read about them you need a green grotty looking 1000L tank to keep one wee mussel happy. Correct. It is easy to see how fast they will go through that. Take a tank of green water and add one mussel. I guarantee that within a few hours the tank will start to look clearer. Within a day it will be almost clean. No matter what we do we cannot supply the quantity of food they require. No matter what the petstores try to tell you, they are not captive bred. All Kakahi sold in the pet trade ( or any trade for that matter) are wild specimens removed from their natural environment. http://www.niwa.co.nz/our-science/fresh ... ies/kakahi CalebLS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 *waits for the tank filters to clean up the food before the mussels can get some. I've had my mussels in my tank for a long time now (over a year) and they haven't starved - you just have to know how to best cater for what you have in your care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 i had them a few years back for a year and a half i think they slowly starved can take a long time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsveda Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 I'll do my best anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 This is something that has bothered me for a long time now. Not only are they extremely difficult to care for in aquaria but they are a threatened native species. We need to start a campaign to inform as many petshops as we can about this. Also I doubt that fry food would be of much use for them, especially being all 'high protein' etc for fast fry growth, it wouldn't take into account the large algal component of their diet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 So where are the petstores getting them from, and what are the legalities over selling them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsveda Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 We need to start a campaign to inform as many petshops as we can about this. Great, off you go then! Pick a petshop that stocks mussels and get in touch with them. Unless when you say 'we' you aren't referring to yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 LOL 'we' meaning more than just me ;P maybe something like we create an info sheet that can be distributed to petshops, get an article in the FNZAS magazine, get people to spread the word to other forums and gatherings of aquarists... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsveda Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Fair enough. What have you done so far? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsveda Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 So where are the petstores getting them from, and what are the legalities over selling them? I did ask Animates to tell me, but he hasn't said where he's getting them from. Is it illegal to gather animals that don't have a protected status? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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