Not taking overflow from the top of water level.

[newaqua]

Hello All.

Quick question with regard to taking the overflow from the top of the tank. Does it have to be taken from the top of the tank?

I have a tank, that has no access from any top edge of glass from all 4 sides. It is simply the way it is situated, that you can walk right around it and view from all 4 sides. It also has a glass top pressed down into the water, so you can see down into the tank without any condensation appearing on the glass.

The current set-up is the in and outs are drilled in the bottom of the tank.

With sufficient water movement inside the tank, would it be possible to take the water for the sump and skimmer from one of the existing holes on the bottom of the tank?

Or am I pushing it? Its only a 200 litre tank.

Any suggestions or comments would be most appreciated.

Thanks

Mike

[Hamstar99]

Could put a riser on one of those existing holes in the bottom to take water from the level that you desire.

[GrahamC]

i'd be interested in a picture of your set up

[livingart]

water will drop to the level of the outlet

[newaqua]

I will post some pictures. Hopefully tonight.

The sump will be on the same level as the tank, kind of hard to explain, its a very very custom tank,a nd nothing about it is normal.

Mike

[livingart]

once the pump stops the water level will even out unless there is a one way valve to stop it

[livingart]

Something like this?

you could take return back through base as well

you would have to make sure diameter of pipe could handle the flow

[blueether]

With the setup the Mark posted above you will need a much bigger pipe to the sump than if it was a vertical fall. The more head that it can have the better for flow, but then with that sort of setup you would start to run into overflow problems at the sump if it was lowered too much.

See "Gravitational Horizontal Flow" section of http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?205645-Pipe-Sizing-Charts-and-Flow-Rates

[livingart]

raising the tank slightly may help

[Hamstar99]

With the setup the Mark posted above you will need a much bigger pipe to the sump than if it was a vertical fall. The more head that it can have the better for flow, but then with that sort of setup you would start to run into overflow problems at the sump if it was lowered too much.

See "Gravitational Horizontal Flow" section of http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?205645-Pipe-Sizing-Charts-and-Flow-Rates

Then could you remedy the Overflow problem by putting a riser on the "out" flow so that the water didnt drop below the riser level? or is there a reason the out flow pipe is so low?

[livingart]

i think the OP is looking for a "clean" look to the tank

ie: no pipes, cables etc.

[newaqua]

Ok. So I have had issues posting the images on here, so I have added a link here. http://www.flickr.com/photos/79532503@N05/with/6973867704/

As you can see, there are 5 panes of glass that can be seen through.

It is a fish-tank-coffee-table. At the moment, while we are renovating, it is not sitting in the middle, hence one pane is up against the box which currently houses all the equipment, however in the future, it will be stand alone in the middle, as a coffee table.

As you can see from the pictures, a normal overflow is not an option. In one of the pictures I have added 2 red circles to show where the in and out that are drilled in the base are. Directly above these is the glass top which presses down into the water, so an overflow in the middle of the tank, above this hole is also not possible. Returning water in the top of the tank is also not an option, as around the top a steel brace holds everything square, which sits hard against the wood when the top is down, I have attempted to show this in another photo.

Essentially I have 2 options from what I can see:

The first is to simply let the flow from the tank fill the sump to the same level of the tank. And have the protein skimmer pump back into the tank, as long as the natural flow through the pipe can keep up with it, to keep water in the sump.

The second is to have, in 2 corners of the tank, an inch from each corner, a mini overflow, which at the bottom, is piped under the sand back to the hole in base. This is quite hard to describe. In each corner, a mini triangle is made by gluing in another piece of glass at a 45 degree angle against both edges, about an inch from where they meet, running it down to the base of the tank, with a hole in the newly added glass at the base, for a pipe to take it back to the base pipe. I hope you can understand what I'm talking about???

The issue with each, is whether the pipe will have enough natural flow with just the pressure of the tank to keep the sump at its level with the protein skimmer running at its appropriate rate.

The issue with just the first is not taking the water from the top, instead taking the water from the base.

How important is it taking the water from the base of the tank? And what kind of flow is needed to keep the protein skimmer doing its job effectively, is a slower rate/flow better than a fast? Or is faster/higher flow better?

Any questions or comments are welcome. The tank at the moment has tropical's in it, but the idea is to eventually change it to marine, once I have everything figured out. I have the ability to have 4 T5's on it, these will be recessed inside the wooden top when I have finished.

Thanks

Mike

[blueether]

Interesting idea, how does the air escape, is the lid cup shaped (almost like a shallow tank)? This could change the best way to plumb it

Edit: I take it that it has a external canister filter ATM?

[newaqua]

Interesting idea, how does the air escape, is the lid cup shaped (almost like a shallow tank)? This could change the best way to plumb it

Edit: I take it that it has a external canister filter ATM?

As you can imagine, there is not alot of water-air contact. Therefore to keep everything alive the air pump effectivly creats a positive pressure inside the tank, forcing the air in. The glass is double glazed, so it pushes down into the tank. Effectively yes its like a shallow tank.

Yes, its running an external filter at the moment.

Any ideas for plumbing/where I should be taking the water from?

Mike

[RUNAS]

Does the house have wooden floor or concrete slab?

If its a concrete floor ingnore the following, unless you know a carpet layer, concrete cutter guy and builder :thup:

If its a wooden floor with enough room to grovel under it(what ive done BTW) and run your pipes under the house to the sump out side this could be a way.

To create a overflow in the corners,you could use PVC pipe, say 40mm in two corners, then reduced down to 25mm across the bottom, into a T then a 90 straight down out the bottom through a bulk head fitting(hope that makes sense).

Hide pipes on bottom with sand and the rock,you could paint these with rock effect paint to try and hide it more, paint overflows black, trying to get some down inside, not invisible but not real obvious either.

The return line can be straight up through the bottom too, similar too the overflow,(opposite end) along the bottom up the corner and tucked up long the back but cap the end and drill multi directional holes (spray bar type of thing).

This way when the power goes off it wont drain the whole tank, like it would if it was in the bottom.

OR you could make the pipes a feature, model up some little flanges with bolts etc make them look like mini water mains.

The only thing you could see would be two pipes under the table, (only just though).

I hope that all made sense.

The perfect way to do the whole thing would be to run all ins and outs through the legs of the table, way kool :thup:

RUNAS

[newaqua]

RUNAS. I like the way you think. If there was more room, going through the legs would be the thing to do. Concrete slab at home. Thanks for the ideas about the pipes. But the sump will have to be at the same level as the tank.