jackp Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 You make a fair point graham, but there is more to it than just water flow. If the filter is off the temp in the filter is no longer regulated. And while 95% of the time it may be fine, in a heavily stocked tank a filter crash can be disastrous. It just doesn't seem worth the risk to me. Lining the inside of your cabinet with soundproofing would seem like a better option to me if you are worried about noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Probably most would die overnight, I think in a day or two they'd have recovered. But if you're going to be switching it off every night you're better off considering it a mechanical filter and just keeping the tank lightly stocked. I don't trust filters after being off for more than an hour or two. I've had a tank die within hours of power coming back on, and that's the only thing I can attribute it to. You could rig up a power head to suck the water through the filter if you're worried about noise. Their sound is dampened by all the water around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 I don't trust filters after being off for more than an hour or two. I've had a tank die within hours of power coming back on, and that's the only thing I can attribute it to. What do you think the mechanism of this was? I doubt it would be just ammonia and nitrite build up as people ship fish around the country bagged for 1-2 days mostly without loss and clearly no filtration. Stories like this make me think we should try and rely on the whole system for filtration and not just one main electro-mechanical device i.e. avoid single point of failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Yet another Eheim convert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 What do you think the mechanism of this was? I doubt it would be just ammonia and nitrite build up Yeah, definitely not ammonia or nitrite. I tested the water and both were still 0. I've left filters off for a week, heaters off for weeks, etc without any issues. I'm sure a moderate to lightly stocked tank would cycle fine without a filter at all, just a powerhead or two for circulation. So I don't believe it's due to lack of filtration. I think once the bacteria in the filter use up all the oxygen they become anaerobic and start producing more toxic byproducts than nitrates. Which build up in the filter and then are dumped into the tank when the power comes back on. Now when I have a power outage I just unplug the filter after an hour so it doesn't come back on when the power does and give it a quick rinse mostly just to dump the water out. No problems since I started doing that. So... :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaway Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Just run the filter. You will get used to it after a few days. I once slept next to a genset that's the size of the average car, no worries. Just have to get used to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Your assumption is that the bacteria/bugs inside your filter will die off instantly. They don't. Some might die overnight, but others will go into a resting phase, some will start denitrifying instead removing nitrate from their environment, and eventually some will spore .. and still be alive millions of years later. More likely than not, your filter and its microbial population will be fine overnight. You might lose a few million bugs which then become food for the other billions. But to be sure you could test it. I was just discussing the scenario where you had a noisy filter, and what you could do about it. Or, what happens in a power failure. My assumption is that they will die overnight, not instantly. That's just nonsense - of course they wouldn't die instantly :roll: I read a thread on here somewhere and somebody said that after 6 hours you will start to lose bacteria. But, like it has already been stated on here, the filter should run 24/7 for maximum efficiency. And the best problem to solve a noisy filter - don't buy one in the first place. Eheims all the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirt Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Plus the filter is not just biological filtration, also mechanical and sometimes chemical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 i have had canisters off over night or more due to power outages or just forgetting to plug the filter back in and never had an issue. I also completely wash out my filters when i clean them which is a big "no no" in some eyes but again, never had any issues doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 My assumption is that they will die overnight, not instantly. That's just nonsense - of course they wouldn't die instantly :roll: I read a thread on here somewhere and somebody said that after 6 hours you will start to lose bacteria. Since the OP is buying this Eheim, let's continue this topic divergence here The problem is that we don't have any experimental data on what really happens. Just anecdotal reports like Ira's, and others who report their filters are fine off after 3 days. Given the latter, it is hard to believe that many die off overnight. Eg. I have a Aqua One 104F internal filter rated for 1480l/hr in my tank, and that gets turned off each night, and left off for days with no ammonia spikes. But I also run sponge filters in the tank all the time. We read of stories of UGF that block up and then people lose the whole tank overnight. In that situation I suspect a build up of H2S and methane in an hypoxic tank is the cause of the loss. (H2S is much less of a problem in oxygenated water) But the bacteria/bugs didn't die, they just converted to different metabolic pathways creating toxic substances. Other recommendations you read about along this line are after an outage is to take your cannister filter material out and wash it in tank water before restarting your filter. Maybe someone who is in secondary school could take this on as a science project to give us some hard data ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Mmm could be a good science fair project, might have to think about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 The judges like projects that are done over a longer time period Joe, rather than a quick project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Well 6 weeks to develop the biological filtration, and then stopping the filter for varying periods, waiting for the filter to recover etc. Reproducing the results to confirm. Sounds like a decent long project to me. :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 The judges like projects that are done over a longer time period Joe, rather than a quick project I have from now until the end of the thrid term to complete it. I was also considering doing something else as well. I will have a think over the holidays and talk to my science techer when I go back to school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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