GrahamC Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I got a complete 60L tank with fish ( fancy guppies, blue gourami ) off TM, and the tank is cycled. There are also various ferns which are weighted down by lead but nothing planted as such. Now, everytime I suction the gravel, heaps of fish crap comes out. If the filter is coping, how hard should I try to clean it so that vacuuming yields no crap and no detritus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artem Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Dirty Gravel means too much fish poo. I would say that you should get rid of the Blue Gourami, at 10cm its too large for any tank that is only 60L. How many Guppies do you have in there? Are there any other fish in the tank? What type of filter are you using on there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 It's a tank maid pro 700 http://www.aquaticsupplies.com.au/blue-planet-tank-maid-internal-filter-pro-700.html so rated for 700l/hour. I am also running the venturi so it's running a little less than that. I also have 6 guppies, and I added 3 baby bristlenoses last week :facepalm: I've been doing 20% water changes every day to try and clean the gravel. Makes me want to change to sand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodKing Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 That sounds like an awful lot of fish poo! If you're having to do that much cleaning it sounds like you have either too many fish in that tank or you're feeding them too much. (or both) I've used a couple of those tankmaids, the media area isn't huge so as long as you clean out the debris regularly it is ample filtration and heaps of water movement. You could try hook up a spray bar and direct some of that movement towards the gravel. This will lift the detritus into the water column where it can be sucked up by the filter. As long as your water chemistry isn't bad then I wouldn't worry too much. As for sand, If you don't like a bit of detritus on the substrate I wouldn't recommend it. Everything sits on top of sand and sticks out like a sore thumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 That's my question .... if the chemistry is fine, should I worry that I have so much detritus. I had a gravel substrate in my goldfish tank and I had the same issue. I could never clean the gravel without taking too much water out. But once I changed to sand, I could see where it all lay, and could easily siphon up those sore thumb areas. And if you create dead spots in the tank, then the stuff tends be moved into that place making it much easier to remove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirt Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 It's like saying the bottom of your room is covered in waste and junk, but the oxygen is fine. It will be nicer for them to live with less detritus. Again, the more fish, the more cleaning. I used to get it too when I had gravel in my turtle tank (later learned it caused impaction so it was removed and replaced with sand) and I find sand is much cleaner. You can buy 20kg bags from mitre 10 for $10 which I found cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Detritus on the substrate is not necessarily a bad thing, except when it is long strings of plec poo and looks aesthetically unappealing. The plants create stuff and feed off it. It pays to leave it around the plant roots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodKing Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Again, the more fish, the more cleaning. +1 I like how gravel hides the rubbish. If I use sand I'm forever vacuuming as I hate visibly dirty substrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Well, clearly there is some difference of opinion here. So, my summary so far is that: In a planted tank ( not the situation here ), then fish waste is useful to leave around the roots as long as the ammonia levels are fine. In a tank where the plants are free floating, or the roots are not used to absorb nutrients, then it does not make sense. I worried too about too much visible waste being unattractive on a sandy bed, but I put some craft plastic sheeting against a side of the tank ( to hold some plants ), and I found that a lot of solid waste gets trapped at the base. So, it gets hidden behind it and I can easily lift it a cm or so to vacuum at the base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirt Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 In a planted tank most people don't gravel vacuum due to it disturbing the plants roots. I'm not sure what detritus does for plants though. All I can think of it may supply nitrates to the plants? IME I find that detritus doesn't build up on sand if you have adequate filtration. In my turtle tank there is no plants not even java moss anymore. It's 200L and has a Sunsun 2000L/h filter and I don't get much detritus build up anywhere, except where the driftwood block the flow and it build up. Easy because you can just vacuum that spot to get all the surface waste. The java moss used to get clogged with shedding skin and then I can remove it and wash it. It would never be fully clean though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I reckon that you could probably get away with one good gravel vac/ water change every week instead of 20% everyday. As long as your water parameters are looking good, I don't see any problem with there being a bit of poo in the gravel. If your water has no ammonia, then the only real worry is nitrates - at high levels it can stunt fish, so gotta keep that down. I reckon that you're being a bit perfectionist with your gravel lol, hope you don't take this the wrong way. If you have fish, you're going to have poo and detritus - you're never going to get all of it. If you don't gravel vac for an extended period of time, that's bad because the waste will eventually dissolve into the water as harmful compounds, which is bad for the fish. But if you gravel vac once a week, I would say that it's sufficient. I'm running a 5.5ft tank and I don't expect my filtration to remove all the poo from the gravel. Since I'm using an overflow into the sump, only the floating particles get caught in the wool. I'm also running an FX-5, but in the grand scheme of the tank, one intake barely grabs any poo from the rest of the tank - so it's more of a bio-filter than anything else; everytime I clean it there's hardly any gunk in it. However, whenever I do my weekly water change, I do a THOROUGH gravel vac to remove most of the poo/ detritus in the gravel. I have big fish and lots of driftwood, so poo and wood chips/ raspings are abundant. I guess my advice would be not to worry about the poo too much, unless it's affecting your water parameters. The filter can only do so much, but beyond that, it's up to your weekly manual siphoning. Sounds like you're working so hard that you're not enjoying the tank as much as you could be! P/S Fish also release liquid waste nearly constantly, so that's another thing (not) to worry about! :slfg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 i find smaller tanks harder to manage that large tanks, ppm levels are much harder to get stable due to lack of water volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I reckon that you're being a bit perfectionist with your gravel lol, hope you don't take this the wrong way. If you have fish, you're going to have poo and detritus - you're never going to get all of it. I guess I am doing this for partly foro insurance so that if the filter dies while I'm away, there isn't a large amount of waste that can potentially wipe out the whole population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirt Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Die in what way? Just because it's old or something? New one would solve this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Impeller jam, or motor burn out ... dunno, but I am often away for a few days at a time and can't trust the kids to look after everything for me! :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 In my gravel tank there is a bit of build up around the bases of plants and every week or 2 I disturb it a little in the areas towards the front of the tank and get rid of the main bits but generally leave it alone. I believe that tiny bugs and nutrients live in there and who's to say it's all poo, there will be all sorts of algae/plant matter that drops and accumulates, it's like the decaying matter you get around trees, it just goes back into the soil. As I have crypts I can't suck it out of the gravel or I disturb them anyway. In the sand tank I don't know where the crap goes, a little settles and some hides in the corners, but it takes a couple of months or 3 for the water flow in the filter to slow down. Like Ally said, I reckon just worry less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 It's just when I look at the fish, they seem to look back at me and I have the feeling they're asking me when I am I going to clean the tank for them :digH: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 they are probably actually saying 'don't put your hands in here AGAIN today... leave us alone with our poop' :sml2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Ahh... you've got adolescent fish ... mine are already parents :slfg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Found another link http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/silent_killer.htm which says don't deep vac the gravel at all! Like this one .. gonna save me heaps of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Li@m Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I never clean my gravel because its a planted tank. Even before that when i didn't have it planted i only gravel vaced when i could see the poop building up in the gravel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I've getting lots of black hair algae on the few non-rooted plants I have due to excess nitrates. So, I was attempting to lower the source ( I don't think I'm overfeeding ). So, I'll just try the water change now without the gravel vac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Li@m Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Get some star grass, it loves nitrate. I can give you some if youwant it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Sure .. I'd like to try it. I take it I will have to have some sand under the gravel for them to root into? And this is the fresh water star grass and not the marine stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Li@m Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I don't do Marine only fresh water. You wont' need anything under the gravel. Also what ligth do you have on the tank? or do you not have one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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