wee2 Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Ive noticed there is a sale for OX heart and liver in PnS, which givws a remindEr of people saying good and bad bwt OX heart and liver to fish especially cichlids. anyone had an experience of feeding their fish with OX heart or OX liver. Dose it make fish gain weight and grow faster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirt Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 I thought it was just a cheap option to feed fish with (the ox heart that is) :dunno: you cut off the fat for turtles, something to do with them not being able to process it or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zayne Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 people use it for discus gives good growth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Theory is that fish are only designed to process the fats from cold blooded animals so when you feed them meat from warm blooded animals then the fat doesn't get process which causes all sorts of issues as the fish gets older. Can be very good for growth etc but may cause other issues in older fish due to excess fat build up in livers etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruju Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 I think it feeds them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxxnz Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 its sure is a cheap feed to the cichlid..$3-$4 per heart.. ornate love them, i throw in a big pieces.. making sure no one could swallow the hold thing.. feeding once in every 2 weeks should be ok no harm.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee2 Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 they are really cheap I have grabd one heart and one liver. just planning to chop them up and mix with bloodworm. give it a go to see what is happening. once every two weeks sounds like a good plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 I (and most? native keepers) feed ox heart. If you have a real butcher get them to put it through the mincer for you after trimming the fat off. Just once through the fine (about 5mm) plate looks good for smaller fish (just right for the inanga and bigger bullies) , the next lot I get I might get put through the coarse plate (about 10mm) and see what that comes out like, might need twice thou. I spread this out thinly, freeze then cube into 10-15mm cubes for the fish to fight over/play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 the liver can be messy in the water when minced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee2 Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 the liver can be messy in the water when minced yes the liver is truely messy even after I only slice it up and give a good wash, there are still alot tiny pieces left at the bottum of tank. and just feel you can never wash it probebly. I have tried some in the tank. Chocolate, flowerhorn, redheaded, and Midas love it but Jag and JD are too fusy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgustipated Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 all my fish love it, my ghost knife won't touch anything else. if you're feeding it to cichlids, just do it as a treat, otherwise they'll start becoming spoilt and turn their nose up at all other healthier foods to try and make you feed them ox heart. definitely remove all the fat and bits of gristle and aorta or whatever it is! i want to also mention that done medium rare on a hot frying pan with a dash of salt and pepper, ox heart is absolutely superb for human consumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachy Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 If you have smaller fish :smln: once ox heart is frozen you can use a cheese grater on it !drool: that's what i used to do :sage: Variety is the key. :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 If you have smaller fish :smln: once ox heart is frozen you can use a cheese grater on it !drool: that's what i used to do :sage: Variety is the key. :thup: That is what I used to do, but got tired of cold fingers and SWMBO didn't like me using her cheese grater... Hence the butcher doing mine now i want to also mention that done medium rare on a hot frying pan with a dash of salt and pepper, ox heart is absolutely superb for human consumption.Has to be fresh though, this is one time where it tastes better fresh and not aged for 14 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgustipated Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 i have also been told that too much raw protein such as meat can give them internal parasites... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 i have used beef heart through out my fishkeeping - mixed with a pellet and beef heart diet, growth is fantastic, it is higher in fat, but fixsh love them. in saying that, you have to have a godo filter, its messy! but i grew my clown loaches on them, lately i cant be bothere dwith them so just fork out pellets, better for fish anyhow, but some argue its not good for fish. but then again, on MFK, there is a guy with a 20plus years old ornate.... HUGE eating beef heart the whole time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Personally, I'm not really sure if there is much truth to the difference between fish flesh and mammalian flesh in digestion. Yes, ox heart is quite fatty, but fish can also be quite fatty. Of course, they are different types of fat, but I imagine that they would be digested in the same way and used up as energy. I reckon everything in moderation. One can't just feed live feeders all the time because the fat content in the feeders will also cause fatty liver in the predatory fish, just as ox heart is likely to do if it's a staple diet. For me, ox heart/ bloodworms/ prawns are more of a treat than anything else. Pound for pound, pellets or gutloaded insects pack more of a protein punch, so it's a more viable option. Furthermore, good quality pellets and insects tend to be eaten more cleanly than prawn/ ox heart - so it's better for the water quality. $0.02 :sage: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee2 Posted November 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 good or bad to the age and health topic is really depending on.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee2 Posted November 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 I think MFKeepers are more concerntrating on the growth of their fish rather than keeping their fish skinny slim and in a healthy 'fit' way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Personally, I'm not really sure if there is much truth to the difference between fish flesh and mammalian flesh in digestion. Yes, ox heart is quite fatty, but fish can also be quite fatty. Of course, they are different types of fat, but I imagine that they would be digested in the same way and used up as energy. I reckon everything in moderation. One can't just feed live feeders all the time because the fat content in the feeders will also cause fatty liver in the predatory fish, just as ox heart is likely to do if it's a staple diet. For me, ox heart/ bloodworms/ prawns are more of a treat than anything else. Pound for pound, pellets or gutloaded insects pack more of a protein punch, so it's a more viable option. Furthermore, good quality pellets and insects tend to be eaten more cleanly than prawn/ ox heart - so it's better for the water quality. $0.02 :sage: i largely agree, supposedly mamalian protein is diff to fish protein. I can see the logic there, but in saying that. Every predator eats vegetation. Ever prey eats vegetation. its all in the gut. thats why if you look at all pellets, it will have algae or spirulina or something similar. beef is good to enlarge fish, long term i have had no issue, but then again, how do we know? how long does a fish live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 I think MFKeepers are more concerntrating on the growth of their fish rather than keeping their fish skinny slim and in a healthy 'fit' way. yeah, thats a mixed thing. examples of arowana. I have noticed that silver aros fed on beef heart predominantly tend to get off white in colour, body is not as nice and scales lack shine. Ones fed on pellets and shrimp i find to look nicer. from personal experience and what i seen. MFK ers feed fish HEAPS because monster fish eat dramatic amounts of food in the wild. Regulating their diet is unwise, naturally they should and are supposed to grow rapidly through massive consumption of food. a myth recently i seen in the forums for arowanas, some say that you should feed aros only a little bit a day. almost to the point of starving - regulating and making growth small. behind a myth is always a reason for the myth. in asia, they have small tanks, to have a 1000 litre tank is really unusual, not cos of cost but space. most aro keeprs there deem a 500litre tank to 600 a good size, 800L tank is considered to be big. My 1200LItre tank they consider monstrous, i dont, they do... cos of space. some say regulating diet of fish will help the red arowana develop colour, not true, age and food and size do that. But they regulate so the aro doesnt grow too big too fast and out grow the small tanks they are in. so in time this became embedded in the culture and has become a fact instead of a preference. MFKers, are mostly americans, canadians and wester countries. THey m=have more space so they will feed heaps, as theiur tanks are large. Arapaima Gigas can grow to 1 metre in its first 18 months of life in the wild, i dont see these guys having their diet regulated in captivity beef is cheaper, and does give a punch to their diet, bad or not.... some say not, some say do. I guess we need science to study this, there is an article somewhere, yet many still feed it with great success Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 There definately would be a difference in the amino acids available between fish based protein (and by fish, I broadly include shellfish etc) compared to mammalian proteins... What they would be and how they would affect growth/health/longevity between them, I couldn't do more than speculate, but, I imagine that like anything that gets metabolised by almost any animal, the useful parts are seperated and absorbed, the rest is excreted. As long as you feed a broad, varied diet, and not rely on one source of protein/fats/carbs etc you should have lively, healthy fish. Ox heart, liver, shrimps, prawns, greens, pellets/tabs/flakes , worms, live foods, etc etc. There so much out there, there no reason to stick to one particular feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 I guess it's just one of those things. If you go on various forums, people post beautiful fish which have great development and look really healthy and they say that the staple diet is pellets only OR live feeders only OR prawns only OR mealworms only. So many different people feeding different foods as staples yet producing really good results. Maybe those fish just have really good genetics, or they look healthy even though their guts are loaded with fat lol. I think at the end of the day, I know that I won't go wrong with pellets. No risk of infection, no mess, loaded with protein/ vitamins and my fish love it haha. Complete bite-sized meals. If you do your research on beef heart and can see that it's got a good balance of protein and vitamins without excessive fat, by all means use it as a staple - you could very well produce very good looking fish as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 There definately would be a difference in the amino acids available between fish based protein (and by fish, I broadly include shellfish etc) compared to mammalian proteins... What they would be and how they would affect growth/health/longevity between them, I couldn't do more than speculate, but, I imagine that like anything that gets metabolised by almost any animal, the useful parts are seperated and absorbed, the rest is excreted. Even with fish flesh, there are differences based on species of fish and the amount of workout that particular muscle group gets. With tuna, it's basically a torpedo in water; it uses all the muscles to propel it through the water at high speed, so the flesh tends to be very red (due to the blood being pumped through it). Compare this with a slower species of fish with paler flesh, the look/ texture is different because the muscles aren't being worked out as much. So I imagine that there would be chemical differences within different fish as well, but as you said, digestion will take the useful parts and discard the useless. Read about this in a sushi book lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 I have a inane problem with "staple diets" and "complete nutrition" - Just because it is written on the tin, does not make it so... with so many species of fish, it is impossible to say that any 1 food has 100% of thier dietary requirements. regardless of what the sales pitch says. Variety is the spice of life, I would get fed up with same thing over and over in my diet, I don't see why my fish should be subjected to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 ...Stuff... Marine biologist but you are indeed correct, as I mentioned, it was a broad generalisation. :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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