livingart Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Unfortunately there is no such thing as budget when it comes to marines. There has been many a post from those who think that the 'nemos' look good and want to have some in a tank. They buy or acquire a sub 200l tank and try and set it up for marines. Small tank does not equal small cost for setup, and in reality the money spent to set up a small tank set up incorrectly, then adding or upgrading gear as you find it does not do the job is probably better spent on setting up a 200l+ tank properly in the first place. Many attempt a small tank and then give up after they suffer fish and invert/coral losses due to an inability to keep the parameters stable, the temperature low over the summer months or sub optimal lighting. I am not trying to put you off, but marines are something that you have to be willing to commit a fair amount of money to in order to provide the best conditions for the inhabitants, once you have achieved this, then they are a pleasure to keep, and not a chore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the new guy Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Can someone who actually has experience in keeping their OWN marine tank help? no offence to those who have tried to help. i have read lots of books too but they tell me one thing but experienced keepers tell me another. I am not going to buy another tank at this stage. i am sticking to the 65L + sump i have. i knew that even a small tank isnt cheap. and i am going to buy the right equipment at the beginning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Hey Craig, try talking to John at Organism. He has a nano marine tank setup that is designed to minimise all the complications. It might be a good place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the new guy Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Hey Craig, try talking to John at Organism. He has a nano marine tank setup that is designed to minimise all the complications. It might be a good place to start. thanks Jen! i might go and take a look at it tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 good nano thread here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24066 i ran a similar size to yours with live rock HOB skimmer and weekly 20% water changes pair of clowns, a goby, mushrooms, leathers T5 light, 10,000k tube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 I have a marine tank so can talk from first hand experience, and have been successfully keeping for marines for a number of years. The smallest tank I have run was about 50liters, my current tank is round 700 For what you are doing your best bet is to keep it simple. Clowns are pretty hardy and some corals actually do better in less clean water. Firstly forget about using the cannister filter, you don't want/need to use it fas a biological filter, you can't use it as a return pump (and even if it worked it would be a waste of a $100+ filter when you could buy a $50 pond pump that would work 1000x better). The only thing it could be used for is holding chemical media, PO4 remover, carbon, or zeolite, for example. For what you are doing there is no point at this stage. Also don't worry about deep sand beds, macro algae filters, refugiums, algae turf filters, etc etc, think of these like you would CO2 in a fresh water tank, they do do a job but are not needed for a simple starting out setup. A sump is an option, but my advise is that for a little tank the extra complication, risk, work, cost, etc etc just isn't worth the gain. Save the sump for when you have bit more experience and are ready to move up another level. All you need to succeed is live rock and a skimmer (and to be honest in a tank that small even a skimmer is just a nice extra). I've actually helped a couple of people setup Fluval Edge tanks (20 odd liter), one has a pair of black clowns and the other a small damsel, neither have skimmers, both have been running for over a year with no problems. On the subject of live rock, there is a lot of confusion and mis-information about live rock. Live rock is live because of the bacteria on and in it, no other reason, if you put dead coral rock into water very quickly if will become live rock. It take a bit longer for it to become mature live rock and start processing nitrates but most shops that sell marines will also sell you rock that they have had in their tanks long enough to be fully live and mature. The next stage of 'live' rock, is live rock with stuff on it, again a lot of shops will be able to sell your rock with at least some extra life. In a lot of ways you are safer to start with dead dry rock, while it's cool to get all the good extras with your rock there are also a lot of bad extras that will have you pulling your hair out down the track. People generally either must have sand or don't add it, my suggestion would be to leave it our for a few months at least, there are many plus and minus's to having sand, but it's a lot easier to add it later than it is to take it out. Have a look how much dirt gathers on the bottom of your tank before you commit to not being able to get it out cause of the sand. In priority order of spending I would buy (Sure I have missed something, but it's my list so..) Tank Salt Coral rock (Either live or dead) Refractometer (this a must have in a small tank) Filtered water Circulation pump Fish Lights (You don't NEED light until you have corals) Corals Skimmer (cause you can make up for a lack of skimmer by doing water changes) Test kits (Maybe) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the new guy Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 thats very intresting, thankyou very much. i always thought i need a filter, or a sump. I am assuming the rock is the natural filter along with the skimmer? why do you say "maybe" for the test kits? i would have thought they are essential. in the future if i do decide to put the sand in, what do i need to do to put it in there? the canister filter will be helpful in our tropical tank, i picked it up for only $45 which i thought was a bargain anyway and its better than the current one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the new guy Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 In priority order of spending I would buy (Sure I have missed something, but it's my list so..) Tank Salt Coral rock (Either live or dead) Refractometer (this a must have in a small tank) Filtered water Circulation pump Fish Lights (You don't NEED light until you have corals) Corals Skimmer (cause you can make up for a lack of skimmer by doing water changes) Test kits (Maybe) think you might have missed a heater???? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 cold water marines rule :nilly: good post suphew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 why do you say "maybe" for the test kits? i would have thought they are essential. The requirement and type of test kit depend on what you plan to do. If your going to only keep what you say what are you going to need to test? Ammonia maybe, but the tank will cycle no matter what you do, then the ammonia will be gone. So you can spend $40 on a test or you can just wait 3-4 weeks and know that the cycle will have happened. If you worried get your LFS to do a test for you, you'll only need to do it once or twice (or most fresh water ammonia tests work for saltwater). The other one you might be interested in is Nitrate, this one could be handy, but really in a marine tank the state of your rock and amount of algae will give you a better idea if your nitrate is getting high. If you decided to keep hard (LPS/SPS) corals you could start monitoring Magnesium, Calcium, and kH, but with regular water changes these levels shouldn't drop much anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 think you might have missed a heater???? lol Lucky I gave myself a disclaimer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 I am assuming the rock is the natural filter along with the skimmer Consider what bio media in a canister filter is like, and then think about what live rock is like. They are both large surface areas for bacteria to live on/in, your tank is the filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the new guy Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 O wow, thankyou for that. that is super duper helpful. i will go and buy some more dry rock, and hopefully i will have the skimmer not this week but the week after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the new guy Posted March 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 I am quite interested to know peoples opinions on air powered skimmers? They seem rather cheap. I can pick one up for about $40 - $50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-obstacle Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 I'm not a marine keeper but I've heard a lot of great things (and not many bad things) about using a well setup algae scrubber in place of a skimmer. check out http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/ for designs and testimonials etc. If I was going marine I'd be giving a scrubber a go in place of a skimmer. A lot of people are now using the algae scrubber as their only filter on a marine setup. It's daring but I guess if you're starting from scratch what have you got to lose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ_Loach Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 oops my bad, I should have looked at the link first. :facepalm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-obstacle Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 the skimmer removes waste from the water, the scrubber would only be removing stuff from the glass - I don't have a marine tank but to me that sounds 100% stupid, only a cheap skate would would want to rely on a scrubber. Why comment on something without reading what he was actually commenting on. :an!gry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zayne Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 I'm not a marine keeper but I've heard a lot of great things (and not many bad things) about using a well setup algae scrubber in place of a skimmer. check out http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/ for designs and testimonials etc. If I was going marine I'd be giving a scrubber a go in place of a skimmer. A lot of people are now using the algae scrubber as their only filter on a marine setup. It's daring but I guess if you're starting from scratch what have you got to lose? never seen them before but they look to work well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Ok, keep calm and watch the language please. GZ an algal scrubber would provide a means for nutrient export through the harvesting of fast-growing turf algae, he is not referring to cleaning the glass with a scrubber. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/ ... /algae.htm Might be a bit ambitious for a sub 100l tank, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ_Loach Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Lol sorry obstacle. I forgot people like to use names for products that mean something else. I just assumed by its name it was something on the end of stick that "scrubs" "algae" ... shesh business people these days ae, always have to have smart name for something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 shesh business people these days ae, always have to have smart name for something. +1. It gets quite annoying at times 8) :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Ok, back on topic please. An algae scrubber is a generic term for a system, just as the word filter encompasses many and varied methods of filtration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the new guy Posted March 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 so has anyone ever used an air powered skimmer? Might be a bit ambitious for a sub 100l tank, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Hope it is OK to post this link - Mods can remove it if its not: craig, there is a host of useful start-up info here: http://www.reefkeepers.co.nz/forum/foru ... m.php?f=44 You'll need to register to view it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 A lot of skimmers are air powered using a airpump to create the foam, airstone driven ones are a bit rarer though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.