Joe Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hi guys, I'm getting a pair of Apistogramma viejita because they have just been imported :bounce: Anyway, I plan to breed these little guys to make them more availible because they are a very nice fish What do I need to know about them? Give me all the info you've got Thanks in advance, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Just standard apisto stuff I would imagine, soft acidic water, good food etc Last time I had them the issue was getting a pair! Both myself and a mate who got them got sold 2 males as pairs from the shop and because we had them shipped we didn't get to choose ourselves by the time we were sure they were 2 males you couldn't get them anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Last time I had them the issue was getting a pair! Both myself and a mate who got them got sold 2 males as pairs from the shop and because we had them shipped we didn't get to choose ourselves by the time we were sure they were 2 males you couldn't get them anymore That really sucks! I really hope this doesn't happen to me. I want to feed them on live food. I never want them to encounter a single flake in their lives! I need to get a brineshrimp hatchery and a whiteworm culture set up, and maybe microworms are well. I can collect daphnia and mossie larvae outside. Is there any other livefood I can culture for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Hey good stuff Joe. Are they the lot from Hollywoods? And are they $37 per fish? A variety of live foods is the key to good health. Some of the other foods that I have tried are fly eggs, which they relish, juvenile jumping spiders (make sure they are not too big or they will choke) and ant eggs. Good luck, and I also plan on getting a pair in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Cool thanks danval. I'm getting confused; I am doing research on the internet, and some sites say that they should be kept in harems but bred as pairs, some say to keep them in a harem and breed them in a harem, and some say the should only be kept and bred as pairs and that a harem isn't a good idea. What do you guys think? The fish aren't from Hollywoods, they are from a wholesaler. Jennifer asked Organism if they can order some fish. I'm unsure of the price at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 There is nothing wrong with good quality flake foods as well Fish food manufacturers don't spend all that money developing foods that are bad for fish and they may well contain vitamins and things that your live foods don't. I do agree that live foods are great for condition a fish but I still believe in feeding flake and pellet foods as well. Harems V pairs depends on the nature of the fish and the size of the tank, if you have a big enough tank then a harem is good, in a small tank the female that doesn't spawn first gets a hiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I give my other fish TetraMin Tropical Flakes, and Nutrifin Max Spurilina Meal Tablets. Are these good? Are there any better quality products on the market? I also feed them frozen brine shrimp and frozen daphnia. My current tank is 150 liters, 100x30x50cm, but I'm getting a 90x60x65cm breeding tank hopefully, which is about 350 liters. Is this any good for a harem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 They would probably be good in a harem in the 150L tank, your food sounds good, NLS is good as well if you wanted to add some more variety. Some live food in there and they would be loving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-town... Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I fed mine up on white worms when I had them. They are very prone to dropsy I found, even if water conditions are perfect. I wouldnt suggest feeding white worms though I have a feeling they are to high in fat for them. I got some wrigglers,but my discus ate them. The parents got dropsy a few weeks later and both died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supasi Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Blackworms are magic. Mine love blackworms. I also feed Mossie larvae and bloodworms. I gave up on grindals as I lost my culture. Low PH is a must. Learn about your water parameters so you know what you are working with. Plenty of tannins and plenty of hiding places. Next biggest thing is patience. They will breed for you if conditions are good and then the task of raising fry becomes the next mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Thanks Supasi and A-town That is very helpful information that you have both provided me with So I'm getting my tank ordered on Monday hopefully. After a talk with mum the dimentions have been changed to 75x55x50cm, because if I used my other dimentions I would have to also look for a stand, but I have a good table that I can use for the tank, but it is too small for a 90x60x65cm tank. I already know about the pH thing I have 10x Terminalia cattapa tea bags, plus I will go to Mitre 10 Mega to buy some Sphagnum Peat Moss for the substrate. I can collect rainwater too. I love blackwater tanks In autumn I can collect oak leaves from the park. Plus I still have a few from last year. How do you set up a good-sized blackworm culture Simon? (I don't want something too small that might run out quickly if I have lots of hungry mouths to feed ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Best of luck. These fish are most likely macmasteri and not viejita but still an awesome fish. They can be a bit stubborn to breed compared to the cacatuoides or agassizi. These fish are not true blackwater fish like bitaeniata, panduro or nijsseni so can breed in pH 6 - 6.5 and up to 5 dH. Peat is not needed but cant hurt and may even stimulate spawning. Lots of mossy larvae and small (or chopped) earthworms or blackworms and maybe some whites or grindals occasionally. Top quality water is the number one concern with these fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Well I really hope they are the A. viejita. I'm not too keen on the macmasteri. But if I do end up with a pair of those I'll try and breed them anyway for the heck of it 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 I went in and saw these at HFF yesterday they are awesome fish, with the quick look they do match fish labelled as viejita on google images, does anyone have a sure fire way of telling if they are mcmasteri/viejita.. Joe the fish are 99% the same to me so either way they would be awesome if you can get males/females Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 The best bet of identification is to get some pics to Mike Wise on Apistogramma.com. With a good pic he can I.d almost any Apistogramma. Here is a link to an interesting discussion on I.d http://forum.apistogramma.com/showthrea ... macmasteri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Its not much use trying to get a male and female and EXPECTING a breeding pair... In the wild mates fish choose a viable partner from a population of fish. It is generally accepted to obtain a group of say 5-6 cichlids you wish to breed at let them pick there own pairs... Every time I've had any species of Dwarf Cichlid I have always just got a male and a female, and they always pair up. I thought that rule was more for larger species like Jewel Cichlids and Angelfish? I just wondered do you guys have any female A. viejita instore currently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I agree it is always best to buy groups and let them sort themselves out to get breeders but with harem spawning apistos that aren't really strict "pair forming" you are more likely to get away with just a male/female than with the pair forming fish. It does appear the jury is still out on if these guys are better in harems or pairs according to the sites I have read on google. They are supposed to be quite hard to sex always best to do your research before going in, there was one in HFF that could have been a girl but looked too colourful to me, maybe worth a punt if I was feeling luckier. They are a good size though and there were some very nice males coloured up in there. Either way they are very nice fish it would be nice to see someone get some males/females of these together and get them breeding so they don't die out like all the other times we have had them and other apistos in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 HFF. Why not try and pick a pair for the customer? Is a sale not a sale? Does the customer not come first? What is your reasoning for not picking a pair for your customer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Customers turn pretty foul when they expect to get a pair and get 2 males. Then there are some that would expect a breeding pair if they are being sold as 'pairs' and not just a random male + female combo. That's how I understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Fair comment but.... some sort of effort should be made to meet the customers expectations rather than the big "no" we can't do it. Just my opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Is a sale not a sale? Why sell a pair when you can get them to buy six and form their own pair? Thats what I had to do with my festae (which were a similar price too), breeding new and rare fish isn't supposed to be cheap or easy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I do realise this but we are not all ignorant and made of money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 HFF. No where in my comment did I say "a guaranteed pair". All I said was why can't you try and pick a pair.... and possibly explain to the customer that "the pair" is simply a male and female that may or may not pair up... If the sexes are very similar then this can be pointed out that you may end up with 2 of the same sex. I do understand your dilemma with people expecting "pairs" but surely an attempt at picking a male and female is not over the top? We all do appreciate your efforts in bringing in rare fish but I personally think you need to be more customer friendly and not get your hackles up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 All good by me. Thanks for your explanation HFF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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