The Future of the hobby in NZ?

[malevolentsparkle]

someone with access to academic databases would be handy. anyone a science student?

[reef]

Here is a option to add fish

From MAF

If you have evidence that the species you want was present in New Zealand before 29 July 1998, we can give you a letter to say that as far as ERMA is concerned these species are not new organisms – that is called non-statutory advice and is free. To elaborate, the evidence can take the form of import documentation, sales of exhibition catalogues, signed (witnessed by a JP) statements from persons in possession of the species, statements from authoritative experts, or published books and scientific paper.

Maybe this might help a little.

[jc254]

Im a marine biologist and biosecuirty student, so yes i have the resources.

[ryanjury]

Here is a option to add fish

From MAF

Maybe this might help a little.

I have been hunting high and low for people with photos of the early africans that have now died out but either none of the people I have contacted had no pics or aren't interested in replying because they don't care.. Many of them had tang lashers and all number of other things that are now gone..

[alanmin4304]

The thing that has always irked me is that heaps of paperwork has to be completed with many copies and most copies go to Maf so why do they not have a record of all the fish that have been legally imported into NZ?

[ryanjury]

The thing that has always irked me is that heaps of paperwork has to be completed with many copies and most copies go to Maf so why do they not have a record of all the fish that have been legally imported into NZ?

They would have copies or at least would have in the past, it wouldn't surprise me (having just changed jobs so I know what it is like) that whoever has the office with all that paperwork has cabinets or computer files filled with stuff and probably deleted or threw away the older stuff or just doesn't know it is there.

[reef]

do they not have a record of all the fish that have been legally imported into NZ

That is the point i made to MAF many years ago, they just fobbed it off.

I tried to get them to provide me with invoices dated pre 1998 as MAF do collect copies of invoices.

The key is people need to keep calling MAF and ERMA and complain how hard it is to add fish.

MAF has done a risk assessment of all existing species so adding fish should be simple, but nothing is simple when dealing with Government Departments.

Just keep calling them

[livingart]

no complete records exist pre that date

so easier for them to give a date they have records from

[reef]

Since commencement of the new organisms component of the HSNO Act (ie 29 July 1998), all new organisms imported into New Zealand have required an approval under the HSNO Act..

Anything prior does not, so go and find the invoices

[livingart]

there have been some notable ones pop up

[Rob]

I'm not sure what species are shown in the videos, but the FNZAS has a couple of videos listed in the year book (I'm having to look at the 2006-2007 one atm) that may count as evidence:

Aquarium Show Aug 1987

Auckland Inter-Club Competition 1988

[reef]

I think finding more invoices/ info pre 1998 is going to be hopeless, you might get the odd fish but not the quantity we need,

I have already exhausted that avenue and collect over 50 invoices from importers and stores.

The next step is to to put thru a application with one fish for a dummy run to see if it will get approved.

So who has a scientific mind that can put together a submission.

[David R]

The next step is to to put thru a application with one fish for a dummy run to see if it will get approved.

So who has a scientific mind that can put together a submission.

What is the cost, and is it being charged per-species? If not it would seem a waste to make a submission of only one species.

[phoenix44]

I shall hunt around for invoices and lists from the late 90s too. Until recently they sat in the boot of my car.

[livingart]

for a start it will be easier to make a submission on one species as reef said

[David R]

for a start it will be easier to make a submission on one species as reef said

That doesn't answer my question about the cost. When Henward and I looked the cost was the same for a Rapid Assessment for 1 species or 20+. There is no such thing as "easy" when dealing with people like MAF, so if its going to be more cost-effective to put multiple species on the same application then it would be foolish not to.

[livingart]

having already done some work on a submission

make it as simple for the applicants and MAF to work onas possible the first time

[David R]

lol, simple and MAF don't really go together either, otherwise we wouldn't be in this situation.....

[livingart]

[livingart]

Agree..

Here is the link to the publication where I read it. It talks about the addition of three new species to the genus Geophagus but especially describes the differences that defines the different Geophagus species (14 in total in 2004).

I'm guessing articles like this would serve as evidence in a MAF application.

http://www.aquatic-experts.com/AQUATIC-EXPERTS%20PDF/Donald%20Taphorn%20Reprints/2004%20Geophagus%20abalios,%20dicrozoster%20winemilleri.pdf

I have a copy of "South American Eartheaters" by Thomas Weidner which, as far as I know, is the best compilation of information about Eartheaters ever written.

already have a species that could be expanded on here and some reference articles available

put together a application based on this

take application form and start to fill it out

everyone keen attempt this

them can edited to incorporate best parts

some of the professionals on here could cast an eye on it

submit as rapid assessment

reef do you still have a copy of the shrimp submission?

[Rabbit]

1 done 1 in the process atm, reef where would you like these sent?

[livingart]

walking the talk

[Simian]

I've been somewhat quiet on the forums front as I have been thoroughly shattered and burnt out of late.

I have been pointed to this thread by an associate, I tried to read from the start but it so damm long! I lost momentum at page 10 and just skimmed the last few so I have a general gist of whats gone on here

As this is a discussion dear to my heart, I'm gonna end my self imposed forum exile to make my comments and follow this from here on out.

For the benefit of those who dont know me, I am the Pres of Waikato and VP of the Federation, all comments here are my own and in all likelyhood not those of either organisation. I have a habit of speaking my mind so here goes (sorry if it ends up as a rant)

I am concerned about the industry, as it is clear those of you who are active on here are.

It is good to see some action taking place, its been a long time coming and at last the Federation has a fish committee who are doing something.

I've been down this path and been "told" by those who "know" that its a waste of time and "far too expensive". From hard personal experience...I have to agree with them if the usual recipe is followed:

Step 1. Take 1 or 2 well meaning and energetic people

Step 2. mix with 10 or 20 big mouthed blow hards who are all talk and no trousers

Step 3. apply small amounts of private cash

Step 4. shake well with swollen egos, political correctness and butt covering and stew for 6 months

Step 5. Evaporate off Blow hards

Step 6. Turn out on tray and....

Viola! 1 or 2 burnt out energetic people no money and a cloud of grumbling blowhards who blame it all on others.

Harsh but true.

The only way to get your goals achieved is by a concerted effort and actual team work. Dont faff about and for goodness sake if you promise something, follow through.

To those well meaning energetic few, dont take on more than you can honestly handle, spread the load!

If there really are serious people reading this thread then join up to the federation, its not perfect but despite its flaws it is democratic, open and crying out for energetic people. You can help those few people who aren't burnt out yet from dying completely.

I have always held the belief that the Federation should be constantly in the ear of the relevant agencies but this takes co-ordination if its going to last. I am impatient, as are many of you non members, the fish committee with the oversight of Jennifer has the framework pretty much completed, It is my opinion that next year is critical, without new energy and many hands to undertake the field work we will simply trash another batch of well meaning and energetic people and leave them on the waste heap.

I watch with interest

Owen

[David R]

1 done 1 in the process atm, reef where would you like these sent?

Can you PM/email me a copy, I will be interested to see the level of detail and references etc necessary, see how much modification the two I'd done will need to fit the new form.

[Rabbit]

Owen

Honesty