Clown Loaches being overly hidey

[smidey]

so where is the 36'' loach?

i can only find examples of actual fish around 12 to 15 inch & a claim of a 18inch fish. that is still half the 3 foot clown that has been claimed.

[livingart]

it is good when older to be able to remember the path you walked to get there

[LoveArowanas]

lol. I had trouble finding my thread for a minute. Epic fish_nerd squabble :lol:

I took everyones advice and got 4 more today so i have 8 in total. Currently there are 4 or 5 cowering under the filter togther, hopefully they are discussing how they are going to get out there and own the tank like they should. I dont pay them to just lunch and hide

[livingart]

[David R]

Why are you all getting upset by one person complaining about image size restrictions? If he wishes to moan about it every time he adds a link to his large pics elsewhere then let him do so. Just ignore it and click on the link if you wish.

Thanks Caryl, and my apologies to the OP for the keyboard warrior smackfest, if arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics I guess I'm as retarded as anyone...

:lol:

And for starters I know fish keeping very well, and many many people keeping fish out of NZ and the large groups in Germany ect. So when saying yanking my chain think again.

Then you have not been searching the internet about clowns much. There are many pics out there of them bigger. Just search, and look for them, most are in forums were old farts show em off.

Again, I don't want to blow my own trumpet, but I've been keeping clowns and posting on various internet discussion groups for over 10 years. This quote is from one of the links you posted:

I've read reports of 16" specimens having been seen/caught in the wild, but have never seen any photographs of them.

Emma Turner is one of the biggest clown loach fanatics/experts in the hobby, are you suggesting she hasn't been "searching the internet about clowns much" because she hasn't seen any pics of >12" specimens?

One thing I've learned over the years is how much people love to exaggerate fish sizes. I've heard countless stories of 16" oscars, 4' arowanas, 18" jags, 30" doviis, and of course 12" and 14" and 16" and even bigger clown loaches. And you know what the only consistent thing between those stories is? A lack of photographic evidence or even a credible source. If someone with a reputation like Axelrod or Konnings wrote an article about clowns in habitat and said they caught some as large as 16" but didn't have pics I would be inclined to believe him/her. But all I've heard is internet rumours and fishermans tales. I've made a post on MFK to see if I can find some pics of >12" clowns, I'd love to be proven wrong but I am very sceptical...

I took everyones advice and got 4 more today so i have 8 in total. Currently there are 4 or 5 cowering under the filter togther, hopefully they are discussing how they are going to get out there and own the tank like they should. I dont pay them to just lunch and hide

Good stuff, 8 is a lot better than 4! Keep a close eye on them for whitespot if you haven't quarantined the new additions, they usually seem to bring it home from even the best LFS. How big are they all? You'll probably find it takes a little while for them to settle in and really become active, having them cowering under the filter sounds to me like there isn't enough cover in the tank? Make up some caves with flat pieces of schist, or even use PVC pipes if you don't mind the look of them in your tank.

Here's a video of mine from ~12 months ago, shortly after purchasing 6 large ones (even they were over-estimated in size, I was told the largest was nearly 12" when in reality it was about 7.5"). If you're worried about a few pics taking too long to load then forget about this, its about 40mb IIRC....

[Caryl]

It's likely a guy thing to exaggerate size. I would tell the joke about why women are bad at parallel parking but this is a family forum :lol:

[LoveArowanas]

ha no need to apologize, it was amusing. And I gaurentee there is a bunch of popcorn munchers out there who are pretty dissapointed the fight has subsided.

They are all more or less the same size, 40mm-50mm. The subscrate in my tank is all med-very large river stones 10mm-90mm and I have a large very holey peice of driftwood and one shist cave and several plants so perhaps I am just being impatient. I'll wait another week or so and if they are still being little pussies I'll look at the PVC thing and get more plants. I really think with 8 of them they should dominate the tank, there is a lot of other fish in there but they are mostly placid apart from the larger (male?) Madagasar who sometimes terrorises the rasboros and its mate. But even then its like a sample effort at being boss that he thinks he has to make an effort to do at least occasionally on account of the fact he is easily the biggest. Seems to me the Madagasgars are more interested in whats going on outside the tank than in :-?

[mac]

Again, I don't want to blow my own trumpet,

I get it you are not blowing your horn. Well some how you don't sound like it. I can hear you from down south.

but I've been keeping clowns and posting on various internet discussion groups for over 10 years.

I have done 3 years of forum work, and fish keeping and have come across all sorts. And have also kept clowns. By far can't stand them as a fish to keep. Prefer Botia histrionica.

I've read reports of 16" specimens having been seen/caught in the wild, but have never seen any photographs of them.

Great post, and thread. Read it a few times. But that is a old thread. And up to date threads and pics have been added. So that is redundant.

Emma Turner is one of the biggest clown loach fanatics/experts in the hobby, are you suggesting she hasn't been "searching the internet about clowns much" because she hasn't seen any pics of >12" specimens?

Right how do I start. Right first of a quote from what I said before. And read it carefully.

And for starters I know fish keeping very well, and many many people keeping fish out of NZ and the large groups in Germany ect. So when saying yanking my chain think again.

Then you have not been searching the internet about clowns much. There are many pics out there of them bigger. Just search, and look for them, most are in forums were old farts show em off.

Now to get this sorted. Some how

There are many pics out there of them bigger. Just search, and look for them, most are in forums were old farts show em off.

says in some word Emma turner. Gotta go hit my head on the wall to check I am awake then get eyes check. Ohh hang on just did that the other day for a medical and all right.

Don't get it. Man I must be mental. Can you help me out. :evil: :evil:

One thing I've learned over the years is how much people love to exaggerate fish sizes.

Oh to true. But then again not all the time is it false.

I've heard countless stories of 16" oscars, 4' arowanas, 18" jags, 30" doviis, and of course 12" and 14" and 16" and even bigger clown loaches.

Just searching the internet proves you wrong strait off. And as for the Doviis check it.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... ?p=2521599

Pretty good prof.

As for the Oscar a mate of mine had one before she had to get rid of them due to a third kid. Not mine. Hers was 15 inch. And that dam dam close.

with the Arow what species do you refer to of them?

Ohh and I know a chap from were the Common plecos have become a pest species in the states who has seen em way past 6 ft fish for bass.

So they don't exist? They must stay at what they were seen at?

And you know what the only consistent thing between those stories is? A lack of photographic evidence or even a credible source.

Ohh I see. So unless it dose not have a pic it is not true. In that case how many people in the world keep fish? How many people are on forums every fish forum? How many are not active? How many post pics of what they have? How many ever even post? So how on earth do you know that there are not monster fish out there? Maybe every one should post because you say so, to prove that there are large fish out their in tanks and in the wild. All hail.

So how do you know what you are saying is true? When all through A history on anything and B on fish keeping fish do what they want. And history is always been changed and theories people died to defend were proved right or wrong over and over again.

If someone with a reputation like Axelrod or Konnings wrote an article about clowns in habitat and said they caught some as large as 16" but didn't have pics I would be inclined to believe him/her.

That is quite true. But then again have they ever search every square inch of river lake swap or water for the the Clowns? No then how do you know if there are larger out there, yet to be found, not to mention in peoples tanks? It is just speculative of what they find and record. Not set in concrete statements.

But all I've heard is internet rumours and fishermans tales. I've made a post on MFK to see if I can find some pics of >12" clowns, I'd love to be proven wrong but I am very sceptical...

True all sorts of rubbish is spoken of. But then again how many rumors were proven true? How many fisherman's tales proven true?

I know first hand of rumors of large fish which were proven false.

As for 12 inch there are heaps, and some of 16 inch clowns. So what is the point?

For me fish are always proving us wrong. Every day we learn something news. So being so stead fast is stupidity.

I have read many times Angles are okay as long as the fish they are with cant fit in their mouth! My Angle is 9 inches tall and 5 inches long. Thus far he has eat 2 4 inch long Kutubus, chased them down and chewed em up. So I take them out and he goes for the Rasboras which he grew up with from tiny. Then on to kulies. Then The Boti H. but never ever touched the Corys.

So made his own tank and tried him with Corys BN and Bleeding hearts. All went good Then added 15 small Glass Fin Tetras which at the moment same size as Ember Tetras. And they tank has been set up like that for 1 year and he never bothers anything. Add anything from Asian and he eats it. To me he is just happy to live with the fish from his river. That is my theory. And may be proven wrong. But how they are use to their own native river fish mates so why would they be be bother. Yet they don't know the others.

And many times my angle has proven books wrong.

mac

[Snowman]

I find the idea of a 2' or 3' clown loach laughable,loaches are by far my favourites, then my countless GBA's. I have 15 clowns ranging from 3" to approx 11" in a 800ltr loach tank, i have had the 11" for 7 yrs and he was about 7yrs old when dad gave him to me, i have about 45 other loaches in a 500ltr loach tank including Kuhli, Striata, Rostra, Angelicious, Queen, Golden Zebra's, Yo-Yo's etc, i have spent way to many hours surfing the net and anywhere esle there is loach info, especially loaches online and if you check the recent book "loaches" you will find that the worlds fish authorities will tell you 12" is about maximum.

[David R]

Snowman post up some pics, would love to see them!!

Mac all I see is lots of text and no pictures. All I'm asking for is a little hard proof and a little less trash talk, is that so hard given that there are so many "old farts showing them off"?

http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=20816

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... p?t=333431

Still no replies. I've googled "huge/massive/monster/16" clown loach" and still found any of these pictures you're talking about. One of the few pics I've found is this one of "Albert" with a hand in the photo;

If the hand in the photo is as big as mine then he looks as though he could be around 30cm, maybe even slightly bigger. But if you look to the left of the pic you can see the back half of an angelfish, if Albert is 30cm then that angel is going to be over a foot tall!!

You're entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine, and I guess we have to agree to disagree. You're right that no one has scoured every inch of river looking for monster clowns and there may be some out there just waiting to be discovered, but the [slim] change that there could be doesn't mean there is. IMO the notion of 2-3' clowns is a load of rubbish, and even the possibility of them getting much over 12" is pretty far fetched, and nothing short of a picture of a loach lying on a tape measure will change that. Look at it this way, the tallest man ever to have lived was 8'11", about 3' taller than the average human, so do we say that people grow to 9' tall when describing the species? If there have been 14-16" clowns then they are most likely like the 8'11" man; an exception to the rule.

*edit* I just re-read you post and noticed this:

Ohh and I know a chap from were the Common plecos have become a pest species in the states who has seen em way past 6 ft fish for bass.

Are you actually suggesting that common pleco (or any suckermouth catfish for that matter) has the potential to grow to 6'? Or have I somehow mis-read that sentence. I hope its the latter.....

[mac]

Are you actually suggesting that common pleco (or any suckermouth catfish for that matter) has the potential to grow to 6'? Or have I somehow mis-read that sentence. I hope its the latter.....

I am refering to the pleco. Which has become a pest in variouse river in america. Large than our rivers. Deeper and bigger.

And fish grow dam large when they want. So who the hell are you to say this is not true? The experts are proved wrong every day.

I am sorry. Just can't take this. You are a blind fool who understand stuff all about fish. So I am not interested any more in posting with you.

Trust in you word all you want. I just think you are a noob to fish keeper with a blind mind, and also on what fish do.

Ohh and to say humans must be different in sizes accordingly. You are just a stupid waste of inbreed wimo space.

mac.

[phoenix44]

you're kidding right?

fish don't grow as big as they want to, nor do they

grow dam large when they want

. you might as well suggest the existence of 50ft human beings with no respect for the thyroid gland or its functions.

The only lorracid i can think of that gets to that size and might be introduced to your rivers in the states is the A. hystrix, and even that doesn't come near 6feet in length. Might get to 2.5 feet or so and that's considered massive.

I don't think davidR is the blind one here...

and to suggest that a "sucker mouth catfish" gets up to 6 feet in length. please... don't kid me around. you are posting on a site where some of us are absolute pleco fanatics.

some panaques will / may occasionally get very close to 34" in length.

[mac]

How the hell did I say I am in the states. Or have anything to do with the states. Can't stand the yanks much.

So some how this has come onto humans. Don't get the hell how. This is about fish not humans. So keep on the topic.

Fish get large. That gets proven all the time. So end of the subject for me.

[phoenix44]

ok. prove me wrong.

show me evidence of a 6foot plecostomus. you may choose any sucker mouth catfish.

[supasi]

http://hubpages.com/hub/How_Big_Does_A_Plecostomus_Get

[kiwiplymouth]

http://naturalplane.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... tfish.html :lol: :lol: :lol:

[kiwiplymouth]

edit: double post :oops:

[mac]

I have no thing proof of the full size one. But proof of larger ones than they say they get in books. The same link posted which was posted by which I have saved, link is http://naturalplane.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... tfish.html. And this one as well

. The 6' pleco was just a large thread posted by our most avid member on AC with keeping american natives and a top bass fishing pro, which to me is good enough fact along with the location and the river system.

For as a avid fishing fan I see many things with dad and other fishing mates of large fish or odd things experts say can't happen but do.

Not everything can be set in stone for a live creature, like we say.

Well why not. Why can't a fish get large with the right enviroment. Now this will sound like contradictions of what I am saying. Prove me wrong how come fish can't get larger than what a humans say it can.

Like the experts of old said the earth was flat. But was it not the case. The same as native cat-fish to the upper andies are not know by us to ever eat people or whole cattle and drag them in to the water. But after close investigation it proved that they do have freak large cat-fish. Same as the Eel Tails in OZZIE.

Ohh here was a good one. The greens said to the farms that tree drink water in OZZIE so the farms cut down thousands of tree on their land. And what become of that. Dry wilderness with less rain than before.

For me I just speak what I have learned from other fish keepers around the world. Things in fish keeping and in everything is not always how the books say.

Anyway I want to calm do. As I said before this was talk about the forum mixed with the odd image. The same with Clowns. Just talk with odd pics.

And my views. Which seem to be just trash to kiwis. No wonder my local club is a waste of space. Old crusty ideas and stupid collection of fish which are common and not even bread back into the native colors.

mac

[kiwiplymouth]

The link that I posted is of a fish that is only 10 inches long not 6 feet

[livingart]

don't forget to keep within the forum guidelines

it is hard to work out if some of the things written here are personal insults

so be careful

[Zayne]

i have seen a pleco that has to be at least 2-3 foot long

[phoenix44]

Lets assume I do think "Phantom and monsters : A daily dose of close encounters, paranormal, UFOs, cryptids, conspiracies, extraterrestrial and alternative news" is indeed a credible source of information, which I do not... but lets assume for one tiny moment that it is indeed credible... :lol:

I still see no evidence of a 6ft pleco, and nor do you or any one else on this planet.

perhaps you have not noticed the trick photography. a member of the Loricariidae family that is 6ft long would have been breaking news and I for one would have heard about it.

Nor do i see that evidence in that video, which I have seen and read discussions about.

In fact... http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sh ... m=with&f=4 - find me the 6ft fish plzkthx :lol:

Like the experts of old said the earth was flat. But was it not the case.

Difference being we can prove the earth is not flat.

Well why not. Why can't a fish get large with the right enviroment.

large yes... sure they can.. but a fish that grows no larger than 2and a bit feet in length will not get to 6feet in length for the same reasons that human beings won't get to be 50 feet tall.

[supasi]

don't forget to jeep within the forum guidelines

it is hard to work out if some of the things written here are personal insults

so be careful

Not how I read it.

Someone made a statement. Others are asking for proof or an explanation. Isnt this the purpose of a discussion forum. To discuss things?

Just asking :-?

[livingart]

don't mind a good discussion

even though some posts are hard to follow

[mac]

I still don't see how fish get into a human size discussion? How dose that happen?

Anyway as I keep stating and no on wants to comment on is the Eel tail catfish of OZZIE is stated by experts to only get to 400mm, but how come fishing mags show em many many time larger. Just One example.

Any way, this thread to me seems closed in such as words, unless a post of this eel tale is challenged.. Most seem to closed in the head or want to compare humans acting the same as fish in sizes. So no longer posting, with anything to do with this thread. And I am not backing down in this at all.